The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

You should use the tungstone wire to make Everplay needles. It may be a little harder to do, but it would last MUCH longer than a regular Tungs-Tone style needle.

A little something for you Tungs-Tone fans...

AllWoundUp wrote:Turned out another 8 needles last night and these actually look pretty good (for me). 1st pic is the saw blade I used to cut the slits, unfortunately, they cost $10.00 and don't last very long before going completely dull. I think I got about 10 cuts out of it.

IMG_0602.jpg

PICT5349.JPG

PICT5350.JPG

PICT5351.JPG

Some of those tips may damage records see

http://www.songster.de/dosen/hmv/1_tung ... index.html

Roaring20s wrote:A little something for you Tungs-Tone fans...

No doubt this was made for the world's largest Credenza.

I realize this is an older thread, but am wondering if any progress was made?

I have checked amazone and they no longer seem to have the 0.006" tungsten wire.

I have thought about trying to find small diameter metal tube stock at 0.026" Diameter for the soft tone.

I was thinking about shooting glue or something into the tube after positioning the wire at one end.

The area were the stylus wire comes in could be soldered or rubber cemented to prevent damaging a record if it fell and bent the stylus.

JohnM wrote:If I was going to make these on a production basis, I think I would use narrow, sheet brass of a certain thickness, and draw it through progressively tighter dies with the tungsten wire inside and forming a core for the brass to tightly wrap around. The rough needles could then be sheared to length, chucked in a lathe and have the domed tip and compliance groove (if any) ground in one operation that would also reveal the tungsten wire at the tip (and perhaps dress the ragged tugsten with a stone). This method would seem wasteful of tungsten wire since each needle would have a wire core running it's entire length, but in theory, the tips could be reground to reveal more wire a few times (at least on the full-tone versions with no compliance groove).

I applaud everyone who is making home-made tungsten needles, but the methods just don't seem to lend themselves to mass production on a profitable scale. I would love to have seen Victor's high-speed needle making machines -- I've read that the needles just poured out of them like rain. Does my suggested method sound practical to any of you engineers on the board?

It is very likely that they would have had automatic screw machines set up to make them. Automatic screw machines would have been used for making many of the other parts.

This is an interesting project. I did all the research and wrote the article listed earlier in the thread.

http://www.hoosierantiquephonographsoci ... -phone.pdf

These were completely custom pieces of equipment designed just to run the needles. I had started building one about in 2003, but life happened, we moved twice, etc. I have the drawings for the machine that show the aspects and functionality along with the parts for the machine I started to build packed away in a box. I probably should find them.

There was mention of filling a tub with glue to hold the wire, soldering, etc. I would not do that at all cost. I have seen this and looked at parts made like this, but you will ultimately destroy your records. The concept that Victor used required the tungsten wire to be RIGIDLY retained in the base metal, which was steel. adding any filler material will dampen the vibrations and would allow the wire to move out of position, not allow the needle to perform and damage the record. It is absolutely critical that the wire be parallel and inline with the barrel. They had a very specific process to achieve this as tungsten wire is very brittle and will not bend without fracturing the grain leaving a very jagged, sharp edge. It is this jagged edge at the point that you see be dressed with a stone in the patent pictures.

When I get some time I will try and look for all of my drawings, notes, etc. In the meantime if I can answer questions let me know.

Mark

Interesting topic... BUT one question: Are any of the original needle making machines still in existence? Were they all scrapped or does anyone have one...?

Curt A wrote:Interesting topic... BUT one question: Are any of the original needle making machines still in existence? Were they all scrapped or does anyone have one...?

Everything is long gone. Only thing left is a paper trail......

Fascinating sketches of the needle making process. The possibility of Victor knocking out 25,000 of them in a day is amazing to me. -bill