The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Most just go with SSO, that works too.


You have a better chance than myself, I am sure. Only 207 in Surry.

I've always found it strange that so many US collectors set their sights on a Credenza.
I would have thought the 10-50 would be the machine of choice, seeing as it has a larger horn, better sound and lower production numbers.
It would be like UK & Aussie collectors setting their sights on a small re-entrant when there's a better machine to be had.
Is this because the 10-50 has even more pot metal issues than the Credenza?

I think it's because the Credenza is the nicest Orthophonic produced that can still be found easily, but still presents a challenge due to production numbers.

A 10-50 would be great, but, you'd spend decades searching, and still likely come up dry.

gramophoneshane wrote:I've always found it strange that so many US collectors set their sights on a Credenza.
I would have thought the 10-50 would be the machine of choice, seeing as it has a larger horn, better sound and lower production numbers.
It would be like UK & Aussie collectors setting their sights on a small re-entrant when there's a better machine to be had.
Is this because the 10-50 has even more pot metal issues than the Credenza?

I just figured it's because the Credenza is a good looking machine that packs a wallop with sound reproduction, and is still pretty easy to find and to buy. A 10-50 is very desirable, but not so easy to find, and typically costs thousands instead of hundreds.

I have a 10-50 and a Credenza (well I gave the Credenza to my mom). The 10-50 took a *LOT* of searching and asking around and $$ for the reproduction changer parts to get the changer working again. These are to replace the usually cracking or totally rotted casted pot metal parts in the changer mechanism. I got the parts to get my changer working again, except the 10"/12" selection lever gears, so I will have to improvise the latter to make that part work via the front lever instead of manually cranking the gear from inside.

It may be my imagination or differences in my soundboxes or the different house acoustics, but I actually think my Credenza sounds slightly better... louder and more bass. The Credenza's tonearm-to-horn tubing is shorter and has fewer turns than the 10-50's, perhaps that could be a factor. The horn on the 10-50 is a bit larger, but again, only by a bit. I didn't even know what a 10-50 was till I stumbled on one on ebay last year for 300, but spent about 350 on the changer parts. I am absolutely spoiled by the convenience of the changer but I also see (and hear!) why the more plentiful and easier to fix Credenzas are big with Victor and other collectors. I'm starting to wish I hadn't given it to my mom! >8 O

I think I'd have to go with difference in soundboxes or room acoustics on this one.
The Credenzas tone chamber (including tonearm) is 6' long, but the 10-50 is 8' foot long, so in theory the 10-50 should have a sustantial increase in sound quality.
I guess US collectors must be a little more realistic than the rest of us too. Most collectors I know of in other parts of the world dont seem to worry if a machine is hard to get or expensive, and I doubt you'd find many that are interested in machines of this vintage, that didn't either want the biggest EMG or Re-entrant, even though they cost around the same as 20 Credenzas.

I agree with Shane. Based on what I've listened to, there is a substantial difference between the 10-50 and Credenza. For starters, the 10-50's bass notes are considerably more rounded and full sounding. When playing a good recording of a pipe organ, for instance, you can not only hear but feel the pedal action. In addition, the 10-50 has even more of a concert hall sound quality than the Credenza. You literally get the impression that you are standing in front of the door to an auditorium.

Room acoustics plays a major part, as does the condition of the sound box. Along with this, how well the entire tone chamber has been sealed is very important. On the example I heard, the owner literally took pains to make sure that there were no air leaks from the sound box to the mouth of the horn. This included wrapping Teflon tape around the end of the tonearm before inserting the sound box, packing heavy grease in the ring where the two portions of the tonearm join together, as well as at the base of the tonearm; sealing the joints of the cast iron elbow assembly, and inspecting and sealing all areas of the horn. I understand that several months worth of work went into all of this, but the results were well worth the effort.

As for the popularity of the Credenza, probably availability, price, size and weight are the major factors. Given the choice between a well restored Credenza and a 10-50, I'd opt for the Credenza, if for no other reason than the fact that the 10-50 would probably go crashing through my apartment's rather flimsy floorboards during the next earthquake.

Ortho_Fan wrote:Given the choice between a well restored Credenza and a 10-50, I'd opt for the Credenza, if for no other reason than the fact that the 10-50 would probably go crashing through my apartment's rather flimsy floorboards during the next earthquake.

ROFL...good point

The only thing I dislike about the Credenza (which makes me like it more, if that makes any sense) is the fact there is so much room under the lid...and so little up there.

I mean, you open the lid, and you have a tone arm, needle storage box, and a turntable. Later models incorporated a "holding area" for the next record or two, but I mean, when you have a turntable in the dead center, and a foot of blank wood on either side...kind of unappealing. We could have at least gotten some hand carved trim under there, or a record brush storage area, etc. etc.

I dislike it because it's simple, yet I like it as well. If I was to buy one, it would have to have the "holding area" piece on it.

The one I gave my mom has the right-oriented turntable, so I do like that I can use the left side for placing records.

I didn't know the 10-50s horn was two feet longer, I was just going by the horn exit measurement. I've got a newer house with vaulted ceilings and laminate floor, and my mom's place is 60 years old with real wood floors and regular ceilings, so yeah I'm guessing the acoustics are a factor. I swapped my three soundboxes around before on both machines and didn't notice any real differences in bass. They do vary in loudness and pronouncement of highs a little though. It's not easy discerning differences either, you know? Put one on, then the other, then scratch your head thinking "does this one have sharper highs? Is this one a tiny bit softer?" Then I repeat it and change my mind!

I've made sure both machines are up to par - sealed up the horn wood, made sure the horn connections are airtight, properly lubed and tested the greased felt washer connections, and rebuilt all the soundboxes with new ball bearings and they are airtight as well. I guess now I'll just say that shorter horn or not, the Credenza still sounds darn good! : ))