Opera wobbling sound

[KCW]

Hey everyone - thanks so much for all of this advice. I am making progress but no success yet. I managed to take the flywheel clamp off and checked the flywheel site. No problem here. The wire is ok. I made sure it was flexible too.

Thanks for the advice Doug in the cylinders. There is some plaster loss on the inside, but I’ve checked each wobble sound by playing those same cylinders in my Amberola. No wobble in them at all. I’ve only had the machine for a few months. I’ve never lubricated it and I do have some 3 in 1 lubrication that I bought for my maroon GEM. Will this be ok for the opera? I’ll check the governor too, but from gross inspection it looks ok.

I’m having a great time figuring this out and learning about the machine!

PS. Getting that flywheel wire back in those little holes is tough!

KCW

[FellowCollector]

Hey everyone - thanks so much for all of this advice. I am making progress but no success yet. I managed to take the flywheel clamp off and checked the flywheel site. No problem here. The wire is ok. I made sure it was flexible too. Thanks for the advice Doug in the cylinders. There is some plaster loss on the inside, but I’ve checked each wobble sound by playing those same cylinders in my Amberola. No wobble in them at all. I’ve only had the machine for a few months. I’ve never lubricated it and I do have some 3 in 1 lubrication that I bought for my maroon GEM. Will this be ok for the opera? I’ll check the governor too, but from gross inspection it looks ok.

I personally would not recommend 3-in-1 oil for phonograph lubrication but others may disagree. I like to use a product called "Zoom Spout" oil which many hardware stores carry. It has almost no odor and seems to work well for me. But again, I don't want to re-open a can of worms about lubricants for a phonograph.

If you're comfortable that the cylinder being played has no impact on the wavy sound and the flywheel balance wire is appropriate and doing its job and presuming the entire gear train on your Opera has been well lubricated then I still might be suspicious of the governor assembly. Good luck and keep us posted.

Doug

[MisterOpera]

The fly wheel balance spring is often broke inside the shaft it goes through. You can't see it unless you take it out. Slide the little spring wire over so you can get at it. Take a needle nose plier and pull it up, hanging on to the flywheel. if it comes out in 2 pieces. (you will have to turn the bottom side towards the top to do the second half) Then replace it with a new one. I have done this on some of my operas. Also I sell the wire for $5.00 post paid.If you have a wobble sound like a "whow" the chances are your governor drive gear is bad. Ron Sitko makes nice replacements. www.misteropera.com
Burdette E. Walters P. O. Boz K
Wellsburg, Iowa 50680

[KCW]

Ok, I tried applying some oil. It didn’t help at all. Took the some wobbling Amberola and played them in my Triumph. They sounded fine. Inspected the governor and it looks ok. Is there an easy way to take the mandrel off? There really does seem to be some visual wobble of the cylinder that I don’t see when I play them in other machines. When I have the mandrel spin without the cylinder in it looks ok, but all the same cylinder played on my Triumoh and Amberola don’t wobble in their audio or visually when they spin. I;m starting to think this is a mandrel or mandrel shaft problem.

[Lucius1958]

For additional clarification (at least an attempt at it!) here is a video I found on YouTube (yikes! The guy in the video drops the cat and calls the cylinders 'discs' but anyway it's all I could find quickly) that features a Columbia Graphophone playing with noticeable "flutter". Move the video timer button to about the 1:00 minute mark to listen to the Graphophone playing so the flutter can be heard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckQ5PUHnoTY

Now, the sound that I hear in the video that KCW provided (of the Edison Opera playing) is more of a wavy sound versus flutter. So replacing the flywheel spring wire may or may not help.

The Royal Purple cylinder being played in the video sure looks to me like it could be part of the problem as it is clearly (but not severely) out of round which is why the reproducer is bobbing up and down during play.

Is there any way that you can find and play a cylinder that rotates almost perfectly true on the mandrel? It may not help at all but if nothing else playing a cylinder that rotates almost perfectly true will eliminate the cylinder itself as a culprit (or an ingredient) for the cause of the wavy sound.

In addition to investigating the flywheel balance spring wire as a culprit I would also investigate the governor. Monitor the rotation of the governor weights as it plays. The governor may need some cleaning and lubrication. If the governor shaft is soiled with old lubricant the governor weight assembly may be sluggish during operation - thus creating a "wavy" effect due to rotational inconsistency from the friction disc during normal play.

Just some additional ideas and hopefully some help.

Doug

Yeah, my BF has the same problem with flutter. I've tried to balance the governor as well as I could, but it persists...

- Bill

[KCW]

I’ve been thinking about maybe trying a new reproducer on my opera to see if this helps. What reproducers could I use? I think a new model L would be expensive. What options do I have if any? Thank you!

[JerryVan]

The fly wheel balance spring is often broke inside the shaft it goes through. You can't see it unless you take it out. Slide the little spring wire over so you can get at it. Take a needle nose plier and pull it up, hanging on to the flywheel. if it comes out in 2 pieces. (you will have to turn the bottom side towards the top to do the second half) Then replace it with a new one. I have done this on some of my operas. Also I sell the wire for $5.00 post paid.If you have a wobble sound like a "whow" the chances are your governor drive gear is bad. Ron Sitko makes nice replacements. http://www.misteropera.com
Burdette E. Walters P. O. Boz K
Wellsburg, Iowa 50680

Did you see Burdette's comments above, regarding the broken wire and how the break may not be easily visible? Have you checked this out? I have found exactly what he describes in my Opera.

[KCW]

Yes I tried that, I removed the wire entirely and inspected it, also made sure it was plenty flexible and put it back together. No change. Was thinking swapping in another reproducer would be a next step. Would any Diamond reproducer do? What about the one on my Edison disc player? I have a B250.

[JerryVan]

Yes I tried that, I removed the wire entirely and inspected it, also made sure it was plenty flexible and put it back together. No change. Was thinking swapping in another reproducer would be a next step. Would any Diamond reproducer do? What about the one on my Edison disc player? I have a B250.

There are a couple options for reproducers, but NOT one from a Diamond Disc machine. You need a reproducer specific to an Opera. Really though, the reproducer would not be the cause of your trouble.

With the wire spring installed, can you hold the flywheel from turning and gently rotate the mandrel back & forth a bit, so as to flex the wire spring? The thinking here is that the mandrel may not be floating freely on the mandrel shaft, allowing the spring to do its job. This could be caused by old, gummed up oil.

[alang]

... Inspected the governor and it looks ok. ...

Not sure what you mean by "inspected"? A governor often "looks ok", but is still not moving freely. I would definitely take the governor apart completely, clean and lubricate it and make sure everything slides freely. Make sure you let the machine wind down completely before trying to remove the governor.

Good luck
Andreas