The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Eric,
I thought my VV-50 was in better condition. It needs a bit of work and parts. If you want a great phonograph to play the records you have, I have a Brunswick Seville available. It is a small orthophonic model. I had the reproducer rebuilt and it is LOUD and clear. The case is near mint.
Ken Brekke

Curt A wrote:I have a VV-50 and a VV-1-70. They both play well, but the VV-1-70 probably sounds "better/louder" with the larger #4 reproducer. That being said, I like the VV-50 better as an all around machine and a #4 reproducer would work well on it... an oak one would be better. The VV-1-70 is a lower end, late model Victrola...

Not to mention the 1-70 has the same tonearm bracket as the 2-60 and you’re up a creek if you got a bad tonearm bracket unless you can get one from another machine...

In my experience the VV-50 was a machine I was able to restore on my own.

Sorry to be a party pooper here. But if these are symphony sets from the 30's and 40's, they are not appropriate for 20's era acoustical playback machines. For serious listening, an electrical pickup with proper equalization and appropriate stylus is required.

By the 1930's, recording equalization was veering away from the acoustical "constant velocity" recording characteristic. From the mid-20's, bass boost and treble cut was the order of the day in order to get some semblance of flat frequency playback on an Orthophonic Victrola. As electronic playback rolled in by the early 30's, the recording characteristic began to change as treble boost and bass cut in recording was soon introduced along with a corresponding treble cut and bass boost on playback to help reduce surface noise and allow a wider dynamic range.

Playing the later symphony sets on an acoustical playback machine will result in a unpleasant strident sound and increased record wear. And coupled with the inconvenience of changing the stylus 18 times in one playing of Beethoven's 9th Symphony will drive the listener to distraction.

Further, the inconvenience of symphony sets with a drop changer sequence played manually is as further frustration.

If the listener is a serious musician, then appreciation of the music result only from appropriate sound reproduction equipment for the later era 78's. On the other hand, most of the truly great classical performances from the 78 era are now on Spotify, YouTube and elsewhere. If this however is to be treated as no more than a passing amusement, then the inferior sound and inconvenience of a wind up gramophone is of a lesser concern.

I definitely agree. If they are later releases the need for a variable speed turntable is reduced since speed was more standardized at 78 (or 78.26) but equalization did not yet conform to the RIAA standard. It is not worth the investment in a lot of equipment to play a few sets from the 30s and 40s, although preamps and equalizers are available to optimize playback of these records. Recordings from the early 30s can be enjoyed on the kinds of phonographs being discussed but definitely anything from the 40s is better heard on a more modern setup, which isn’t to say that they were not probably played on some older machines (especially portables) back in the day. I have quite a few recordings (like complete operas, Robert Shaw choral recordings, the 1947 Sargent recording of Elijah, Toscanini’s 1947 Midsummer Night’s Dream, and many many others) that were never meant for playback on acoustic equipment. Most or all of these have been rereleased but I still enjoy hearing them in their original format even it if does mean changing sides (of course, some of them belonged to my family so I remember doing that when I was growing up). They do require a cartridge and stylus designed for the wider grooves of 78s—that is a necessity together with the 78 speed option.

I definitely agree. If they are later releases the need for a variable speed turntable is reduced since speed was more standardized at 78 (or 78.26) but equalization did not yet conform to the RIAA standard. It is not worth the investment in a lot of equipment to play a few sets from the 30s and 40s, although preamps and equalizers are available to optimize playback of these records. Recordings from the early 30s can be enjoyed on the kinds of phonographs being discussed but definitely anything from the 40s is better heard on a more modern setup, which isn’t to say that they were not probably played on some older machines (especially portables) back in the day. I have quite a few recordings (like complete operas, Robert Shaw choral recordings, the 1947 Sargent recording of Elijah, Toscanini’s 1947 Midsummer Night’s Dream, and many many others) that were never meant for playback on acoustic equipment. Most or all of these have been rereleased but I still enjoy hearing them in their original format even it if does mean changing sides (of course, some of them belonged to my family so I remember doing that when I was growing up). They do require a cartridge and stylus designed for the wider grooves of 78s—that is a necessity together with the 78 speed option.

drh wrote:A collection of "Victrola symphony records"? If they are of complete works spread across two or more records in multi-sleeve albums, you don't want a Victrola IV or VI; those are more appropriate for acoustic records, and the ones you have will almost certainly be electric recordings. You *can* play such on a IV or VI, but the results will not be nearly as good as on a machine designed for later records. Could you post photos of a few labels?

This suggestion will not be popular here, I know, but records of that sort can be played on modern turntables and yield surprisingly good sound, assuming you fit out the system properly with some appropriate styli and electronics. If you dub them to computer, you can also splice out the side breaks for continuous performances. Might be worth considering unless you just want to take the plunge into the world of antique phonographs. If you are interested in going that route, I've written a number of articles for TNT-Audio about playback of 78s on modern gear, and I'd be happy to give you links.

Finally got the chance to take some photos. These are the records she saved. No idea how old they are.
Thanks much
Eric

Yes, these are very much appropriate to play on a Victrola.

Andreas

Those "Symphony Series" (sometimes referred to as) "Banner label" Columbias are all acoustically recorded as are the Victors. Fine to play on any windup machine.

You can date them by looking them up here : https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php

Easiest to do by simply searching by catalog number.

erinN wrote:

drh wrote:...
Finally got the chance to take some photos. These are the records she saved. No idea how old they are.
Thanks much
Eric
....

These are all acoustic, pre-1925 recordings.

One easy way to check when a record was recorded is to simply google the artist or title, along with the number on the disc. So, for instance, when I google: Ponselle 78920 --

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=Rosa ... type=&tbs= --

...and click on the first link, I come up with this page of the ADB site "Wolfe" posted above:

https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... 920-Values

...indicating that the recording dates from 1920.

By the way, the electrical recording process was first used by Columbia and Victor starting in late 1924, with the first releases in the spring of 1925.

HTH,
OrthoFan

Yes, any machine will work for those so you can choose based on other criteria. A VV-VI or IV would work if you want a tabletop model, or a IX if you want a tabletop machine with a lid.

Bill