The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

CarlosV wrote:

AZ* wrote:Advice to the original poster. Save your money and go to a show. Buy some books and learn about the machines before you go.

I don't know where you are looking, but most outside horn machines don't show up in antiques malls or flee markets unless a phono dealer has a stall there.

It's always best to examine them in person.

Iñigo, learning about machines is sound advice, but I'm afraid a gramophone show is rarer than an external horn machine. There are few in the US and practically nothing in Europe (Rudeshein shrank to almost nothing, Powick sells only records and old radios, and that's it).

There is always a selection of machines for sale at the CLPGS Powick Phonofair, usually including external horn machines both cylinder and disc.
I have attended the event for years and have never seen an old radio for sale there, but with no interest in radio I might have failed to notice one.

epigramophone wrote: There is always a selection of machines for sale at the CLPGS Powick Phonofair, usually including external horn machines both cylinder and disc.
I have attended the event for years and have never seen an old radio for sale there, but with no interest in radio I might have failed to notice one.

Roger, I got the report on Powick from someone who went there looking for radios, so it may be that he missed the gramophones. In any case, my point is to show the scarcity of such events. I did go to Rudeshein a number of times, but since they moved from the large expo hall to a place that looks like an old morgue I gave up.

My advice to "save your money and go to a show" was directed to the original poster who is located in the USA. There are typically between 4 and 6 phono shows throughout the USA each year. This past year has, of course, been different due to the pandemic.

PM Sent...

I still do not own any also, but I'm impatient when I see other cool machines (that are cheaper) I have been looking for years for one "in the wild" and have only encountered 1. It was in pieces at an estate sale and when I went back to buy it, it was sold.

As a quick follow up, it certainly does appear that a "show" would be the "go to" spot for external horn machines, based on the responses here. But, I really find it puzzling that not many pop up at estates sales, flea markets, etc. As an example, surely, they don't go straight from grandma's attic in the southeast USA to a show in the mid-west...

Some lucky dog somewhere has to wander into a yard sale or flea market and see an early external horn machine sometimes...
maybe.... or, are all of us younger folks 30 years too late for that...

About phono shows...

Over the years I've read posts that discourage attendance at phono shows because prices are artificially high. I suspect comments like that come from collectors that primarily enjoy a bargain and there's nothing wrong with a really good deal. I've traveled to the APS Expo in Buena Park and the old Union show for decades both as a buyer and a seller. As a seller I've found that you must be competitively priced to make a sale. At any given show there are multiple Edison, Victor, and Columbia machines. Even less frequently founds brands like Talk-O-Phone and Zonophone are represented in multiple examples. So if there are six Victor III machines for sale, how do you sell one? The successful seller must offer quality and value. As a seller I have always been successful by offering both. As a buyer I have never come home from Orlando, Wayne, Union, or Buena Park without an addition to my collection. Never.

Jerry B.

For many years I searched for a Victor external horn machine. Several times there were overpriced opportunities at antique shops, auctions, and estate sales. Ten years ago, at the Buena Park show, I found a Victor III that had a few issues but was affordable. Jerry's comments are worth considering.

I'm kind of surprised that nobody has seconded my suggestion of phonograph auctions, such as Stantons. Why not? Typically, prices there are lower than at shows, (a lot of machines I see at shows, I have recognized from past auctions). Plus, you can take your time looking over machines in detail without worrying about somebody buying it out from under you. Also, can ask the opinions of seasoned collectors about machines you're interested in, (assuming they're not interested as well ). Most of my "stuff" has come from such auctions. I do quite often buy at shows, but frankly, I can't always afford "show prices". Not a complaint, just a reality.

EdiBrunsVic wrote:For many years I searched for a Victor external horn machine. Several times there were overpriced opportunities at antique shops, auctions, and estate sales. Ten years ago, at the Buena Park show, I found a Victor III that had a few issues but was affordable. Jerry's comments are worth considering.

The asking prices for machines at antique shops and fairs can certainly seem excessive, but auction prices are what the buyers are prepared to pay, no more and no less.
Auction items with unrealistically high reserves will not sell. Valuation is all about comparison, and it is auction sale prices which determine market value.