Chopped HMV 203

[soundgen]

I thought that HMV Mahogany cabinets of the Re-Entrant era were spray finished with cellulose lacquer.

All the mahogany re-entrant gramophones 157's 163's 194's and 203's I have seen were definitely French Polished , yes HMV used spray cellulose lacquer certainly on HMV 162's etc and these are difficult to refinish and have quite distinct looking finishes which make me sure the later ones were not cellulose , but I stand to be corrected , perhaps someone could discretely test their machines ?

[HMVDevotee]

It occurs to me that a closer visual examination of the instruments might yield a clue as to the type of finish applied.

From my experience cleaning and maintaining french polish finishes on 18th C. furniture, the labor-intensive hand work always leaves slight irregularities at joints that are not flush or flat. 90 degree joints, by virtue of the tiny space available at the wood's union to insert a pad for polishing, often show the smallest of irregularities that sometimes can't be seen without close inspection, sometimes even requiring magnification if the finisher is really skilled.

Often on the sprayed finishes I've seen on furniture (and cheap violins), presumably to save labor costs, some of the joinery is filled with whatever colored goop is applied, sometimes filling the 90 joint with a uniform radius of material which can even hide poor craftsmanship. Again, you may need a magnifying glass to see it. I've seen such joints develop long cracks in the finish as the wood shrinks over time, not along the joint itself where the thickest finish forms the radius of material, but running parallel to the join, fractions of a millimeter away, as the finish thins.

Of course, all of this irrelevant if the casework parts are pre-finished prior to assembly. Another clue might be found in a period photograph of the shops of the HMV factory.

Given his experience with finishes, perhaps Alex can comment further.

Robert

[Steve]

Nitrocellulose lacquer looks absolutely nothing like French polish. Its like comparing a piece of chalk with a piece of cheese. They behave differently and react with the air and UV light differently over time too.

All the lacquer finishes I've seen have crazed creating large "wave" patterns across the finish ie long wavey lines that span the width of the machine. French polish tends to craze in much finer patterns and leaves you with an almost leathery appearance. It has a more softer look with a satin appearance. Even when lacquer crazes badly you still see that high glossy appearance and a slightly plastic look to it. You can chip it off in small pieces that look like dried up old cellotape. Its a harder more brittle material and can flake off. Shellac (French polish) is naturally softer but more flexible and resilient with it and shrinks causing that wallpaper or leather look.

I'm unaware of any HMV re-entrant era mahogany machines which were polished as opposed to sprayed.

With that said I do own an earlier 460 table Lumiere in mahogany and whilst that is definitely a spray applied finish (spot the orange peel spray patterns just like car paint) it is shellac not lacquer. Clearly before switching to spray applied nitrocellulose to save time and money, HMV had a transitional period of spraying shellac.

[Inigo]

Interesting replies... Many thanks to all... Let's wait for some more light on that...
And yes, Mike-soundgen; that's exactly what I've been thinking of all these years... If it looks nice, what else?
I waxed it because of my own limitations and poor skills on woodwork. Waxing seemed the best and less intrusive approach. The look is good, although a bit more waxing and adding a grain filler to get a smoother mirror-like finish seems the next step to improve its appearance a bit more... Yet I'm in love with this machine for the incredible sound it has, both in acoustic and electric records. It took years of experimentation and sbx overhauling... plus some delicate modifications, to arrive at this point, which seems to be the finest possible performance for this sound system. I'm always a bit disappointed for having done the waxing, as I believe it is not easily reversible to its original finish... But anyway, two facts aliviate that bad feeling : the look is good, and I am decided to stay with this machine forever due to its sound, perhaps too powerful with high level dance records, but guys...! You had to listen to it in the flesh to believe how good it sounds with soft records, cool jazz, or classical recordings, especially chamber music and opera! Organ records also sound magnificent!
Any advice about the idea of adding some grain filler to the wax?

[Steve]

Any advice about the idea of adding some grain filler to the wax?

I'm not an expert on restoration of finishes but its my understanding that grain filler material ie. shellac, is usually applied BEFORE the finish is applied. I'm not certain you can add a grain filler after heavily waxing the wood?

[Inigo]

Maybe not... Of course, shellac cannot be added now, the wax impairs the adherence.
I was thinking of adding pumice powder or something to the wax, to help filling the grain, but I don't know if this can be done with wax...