The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

andyive wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:04 am This is what I have found so far. JOHN C HOYER IS THE NAME ON THE FRONT, AND THERE IS A FAST AND SLOW LEVER AS MENTIONED

Also Attached is the Seth Thomas write up from the America clock journal. "THE CLOCKWORK MECHANISM IS SETH THOMAS"

Andy,
Again, it would be nice to provide supporting material for your statements - pictures, documents, etc.
Your quote mentions an attached write up from the America clock journal... Where is it?

You say the movement is "Seth Thomas", in spite of an identical movement identified as being by Waterbury. Historically, Waterbury and Seth Thomas had no business relationship, so this doesn't make sense. Does your movement have an engraved Seth Thomas logo? If so, could you attach a picture of the engraving?

Also, could you attach a picture of the front of this item showing John C. Hoyer's name and the "Fast/Slow" lever?

JerryVan wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:37 pm I believe Curt has this nailed 100%

I agree.

At this point, I think all we can say is that somebody, for some reason, put an old clock mechanism into a home-brew box. I doubt we'll ever know exactly why. But to the OP, I'd suggest that you came to a phono board and said "I think I have X that has to do with phonographs." Several folks with lots of experience, individually and collectively, with spring-driven phonographs have opined that whatever you have, it has nothing to do with phonographs. Please consider that maybe they know what they're talking about and what you have really isn't a phonograph-related item. In other words, I could say, "I'm convinced what you have there is an experimental trolling motor for a fishing punt. I've read people used Victrola motors to make trolling motors." (I have actually read that, true or not I don't know.) If I then go to a watermen's forum and advance that theory and the response is "No, it isn't, it wouldn't and couldn't work," I'd need to rethink my hypothesis, or at least say "thanks" to the experts and go my merry way, unconvinced but not arguing. I think that's where you are now.

For the, uh, record, I agree with the others: that motor could not possibly have driven a phonograph cylinder recorder. Maybe, as some have suggested, it is part of a home-made scientific instrument. If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on its being a home-made gizmo to rotate a little Christmas tree (I've seen pictures of such things) or maybe a platform for some collectible, like a vase or flamingo figurine or some such. But I don't know; there's no way anyone will be able to know except whoever put the thing together in the first place. Not a satisfying answer, but I think that's where we are.

Most definitely part of a Kymograph, chart recorder, or thing the draws on a paper covered drum
No doubt the reason 1 Hour Revolution is mark on 2 spots on the front of it.
I'm not so convinced it's home made, especially if it's marked John C Hoyer somewhere (which I can't make out anywhere), but the entire external apparatus is missing, and without another example or drawings to look at, will probably be impossible to restore.

gramophoneshane wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:10 pm Most definitely part of a Kymograph, chart recorder, or thing the draws on a paper covered drum
No doubt the reason 1 Hour Revolution is mark on 2 spots on the front of it.
I'm not so convinced it's home made, especially if it's marked John C Hoyer somewhere (which I can't make out anywhere), but the entire external apparatus is missing, and without another example or drawings to look at, will probably be impossible to restore.

Plus, it's completely missing the frog!

The writing on each of the left and right says WIND, with a direction arrow. The centre one says 1 hour revolution, with an arrow

The makers mark is John,C Hoyer, scientific instrument maker 15 Bouverie st London

No mention of US anywhere.

Graces Catalogue is where the cyclinder recording idea came from, see my previous write up.

The clock mechanism says made in the USA and the left hand corner has the Seth Thomas mark

The clock mechanism says made in the USA and the left hand corner has the Seth Thomas mark. Last 2 phots attached

Thanks for the additional photos.
I think the John Hoyer stamp proves it's not just a home made box with a clock mechanism in it.
The modifications to the movement and the 3 witness marks on the wood front are a good indication this was a scientific instrument of some kind.
The rotating cylinder of the Kymograph (as Curt correctly named) is the only instrument I can think of that would require a mechanism like this.
It does however appear that whatever this was used to rotate, did it on both the front and back of the box.

Have you wound the mechanism to see if it works?
Because of the modifications, I'm wondering if each spring runs each side independently, and if the 2 speed control levers at the top control the speed of each side independently too.

Andy, sorry I pestered you, but thanks for posting these pictures. They take away any doubt about its origins...