The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It's not rocket science, you won't have any problems, and if you do, you will figure it out, and if you still do, post again with any questions.

Put a small amount of stripper in one spot no bigger then an inch square, and see how it reacts to the paint.
If it eats it off right away, then you're home free.

One other thing, I would not recommend a water based "orange" citrus stripper, while these do work, they are not very strong and you will be there forever.

JeffR1 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:53 pm If the outside has been shellacked, which it has, then the inside surface has to be sealed.

I've never heard of having to seal the inside surface when shellac is used.
It certainly was never done for centuries on even large bits of timber like table tops or drawer fronts etc.

I know it's important when using polyurethane because you are essentially sealing the surface of the wood with a layer of plastic, leaving only the unsealed surface vulnerable to moisture and atmospheric changes, where as shellac is a natural substance which allows the timber and finish to breathe and prevent warping under normal conditions.

It depends what was used as a grain filler and if the table was waxed or not, but I have always done both sides.

I'm still not precisely sure if I want to strip the inside. I'll certainly fill the holes, but the paint seems to have been applied early in it's life. It doesn't detract from the value of the machine afaik, and, well, I'm not sure how much I want to be working with lead based paint.

by gunnarthefeisty » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:36 pm
I really think that cygnets, while cool, really hurt the sale of a phono. The extremely high price tag that gets tacked on to any phono with one definitely slows sales

Ah yes, right up there with silver paint.

If you're worried about lead paint, antiques might not be your best choice for a hobby. But seriously, regarding potential lead paint, wear a respirator & gloves when working with it and you'll be just fine. Should do that anyway when you are working with paint stripper. If you ever fired a gun you've turned loose a lot more lead than is in that bit of paint, and if you've ever cleaned your own gun then you've been exposed to the same. Lead is manageable. Take good quality paint stripper, disassemble the case, and follow the directions on the tin (including the use of a brass brush going with the grain.)

Now--What I would suggest is slow down on both your purchasing and your posting, and get busy. These won't restore themselves, just like (as you may detect by now) they won't pack & transport themselves either.

Listen to the guys who have suggested taking that box apart--when it's apart you can do a good job on that one panel and then it should all fit back together very well.

If you'd read these threads & links, get a hint of what's what, and go down to the hardware store and try some of the furniture products there, I bet you'd get this moving right along. Most neighborhood hardware stores will have what you want.

1 pack steel wool, assorted. The #0000 is really handy
1 qt paint stripper (Zip Strip works great but don't touch it as it eats skin and don't stand upwind of it as it will burn your nose. This is the real thing. I use citri-strip but I also let it sit awhile.)
1 qt mineral spirits
1 qt denatured alcohol
1pt amber shellac (Zinssner Bull's-Eye. Cut this with denatured alcohol.)
1 box grain filler, ebony
Brass brushes, 2-pack (find in the welding & automobile section)
Stain to match preserved examples of Firesides--Not polyurethane but a regular stain (that way you can use a shellac finish & get something original)
4 black rubber tack bumpers for case bottom (they may not have these)
Wood glue (they should have this)
Carpenter's clamps
Sandpaper, grades 100 to 400 (any finer & steel wool does it)
Box safety razor blades to scrape
Respirator (anything from a Covid mask to a WWI gas mask dependent on what's handy. Covid is slightly more recent.)


Use your head, think outside the box. I found that scraping old shellac finishes worked better than stripping them--I also have a vintage safety-razor as well, and the blades look just like paint scrapers. So I scraped the finishes & got the wood ready to sand & paint without chemical stripper, on some machines.

And for heaven's sake get on with it. When I was sixteen I bought this--


And I made it look like this. Yes, that is the original finish. The back panel was missing so I bought a replacement painted in white oilbase. The whole motor was junked, everything that could go wrong had, and the veneer was curling badly--now it's done & ready to use, and so I did put it to use. Six years later it's still working.

All this was done with stuff from the local hardware store. I later went through & changed from 3-in-One Oil to sewing-machine oil, upgraded my skill and redid the governor, did a better job adjusting the reproducer--now I've got a nice enough Victrola. You know what? They most certainly do not restore themselves, and the only way to get good at it is to start turning wrenches. Next time that you post I'm hoping you can get the bottom off that Fireside and start working on the paint--or at least go to a hardware store, or have a rummage in the garage, and get some supplies.



Now go get restoring before this thing rots to dust with everyone sitting around talking about it.

gunnarthefeisty wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:36 pm I'm not sure how much I want to be working with lead based paint.

How do you know it's lead based?

Besides, using stripper on the paint will prevent any inhalation of paint dust/lead. How is the lead going to enter your body?? Nothing to worry about. (For that matter, I wouldn't let it worry me anyway.)
If you're still concerned, just paint it again with flat black. Still not correct, but much less glaring.

yeah, I'll strip it. I think I might give it a shellac coat after I've stripped it so it looks decent inside. I assume it's lead based, but I don't have any proof. I'll start on this when I finish my Victor. The nice thing about this is mechanically it's fully restored, so the case is all I have to worry about.

There was no reason to put lead in aluminum paint. It would have been white or "red" if it was lead based paint. They may have used a little bit of heavy metals for a drier, but that would have been it and unlikely. For whatever reason aluminum paint got to be really popular in the late 20's for a sealer. I refinished a mahogany Amberola 1-A a few years ago that had been completely covered in aluminum paint. The guy that bought it new thought that was a good look for it in the mid thirties. It was a mess, but it actually cleaned up pretty nicely. I think those cabinets are fairly ugly with that lyre grill, but they do look much better with a decent finish on them. Unfortunately, they have removed the methylene chloride from the paint removers in the last few years, so it's going to be hard to remove some of the more stubborn finishes that are out there. And MUCH more expensive. I bought some lacquer thinner this weekend and it was $11 more than it was a month or 5 weeks ago. So there is that as well.

EarlH wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:36 pm There was no reason to put lead in aluminum paint. It would have been white or "red" if it was lead based paint. They may have used a little bit of heavy metals for a drier, but that would have been it and unlikely. For whatever reason aluminum paint got to be really popular in the late 20's for a sealer. I refinished a mahogany Amberola 1-A a few years ago that had been completely covered in aluminum paint. The guy that bought it new thought that was a good look for it in the mid thirties. It was a mess, but it actually cleaned up pretty nicely. I think those cabinets are fairly ugly with that lyre grill, but they do look much better with a decent finish on them. Unfortunately, they have removed the methylene chloride from the paint removers in the last few years, so it's going to be hard to remove some of the more stubborn finishes that are out there. And MUCH more expensive. I bought some lacquer thinner this weekend and it was $11 more than it was a month or 5 weeks ago. So there is that as well.

thanks for the information! Nice to hear there's no lead, and I think the finish was done a while ago. My dad or grandpa probably have paint thinner somewhere. I'm intending to make this my main player. I'll be buying a model O reproducer and a fireside horn once I can afford it.

Yes, go ahead and fix this machine. Once done, sell it. Then with the proceeds from that sale, by a nice original problem-free example of this model, if that's the model you want. Or just sell it now--probably won't realize much difference in price--and again buy an original machine that hasn't been futzed with. In the long run, you will appreciate having a mellow, nicely-aged antique that someone hasn't tried to make look new.

Well, that's my two cents.