The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

OrthoFan wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:57 pm

Lah Ca wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:20 pm And I must face the possibility that this machine is a very well done Franken-phone, body parts from different corpses stitched together in the distant past - definitely not something recent. I went into the purchase with my eyes open, well aware of this possibility. I think this to be a bit more unlikely than other possibilities, though.

Whatever it is or may be, it is a nice enough machine . It sounds very nice. It shows very little signs of extensive use and no signs of abuse.

Keeping in mind the fact that virtually all of the components for RCA-Victrola brand portables from the early-to-mid-1930s onward were supplied by outside vendors such as General Industries, etc., I'm pretty sure that this is not a Franken-Phone. I'm wondering if "012041" stamped on the motor-board is the manufacture date -- Jan. 20, 1941. If that's the case, with RCA gearing up for war work and Canada fully involved, it's more likely that this was probably supplied by Birch to RCA to fill any demand there might have been for acoustic portables.

BTW, judging from the photos of the tonearm, it looks like the whole thing might have been gold colored at one time. I had a portable with an identical tonearm that had sort of a bronze-brownish colored coating which was literally falling off in patches, leaving behind the pot metal gray surface.

OrthoFan

It likely has more to do with the RCA + Victor merger than other factors- RCA would have naturally been more focused on the electronic end of things rather than acoustic- hence the proliferation of nicer and nicer radio- phonos (or Radiograms) and small machines designed to hook into a radio set. The portable market was the last frontier of acoustical reproduction, lasting well into the Sixties with "kiddie" phonos that still had a plastic acoustical sound box and used steel needles- for '45s'! So, it would hardly be any wonder that RCA would have continued offering "cobbled" machines with parts from general industry suppliers in order to snag a share of this still viable market without needing to invest in further R&D for it. After all, portables still helped sell records!

I remember as a lad the local radio repair shop had a small stash of what today we'd call "NOS" RCA portable wind ups- likely from the mid to late 50s- for sale at about $10 per. This was likely the late mid 60s. Wish I had been able to buy them up!

gramophone-georg wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:44 pm ..................It likely has more to do with the RCA + Victor merger than other factors.............

Hi George:

Many thanks. I should have said in my above post that it looks like Lah Ca's portable was supplied by Birch to RCA Victor Canada as a "complete unit," to meet customer demand, rather than as various components to be assembled on-site at RCA's factories.

But this begs the question: following the 1929 merger with Victor, and from the mid-to-late 1930s & onward, were components such as sound boxes, motors, tonearms, cases, etc. supplied to RCA from outside vendors to be assembled at the RCA Victor factory, or did the outside vendors supply complete phonographs to RCA for re-branding? I had assumed, based on what I was told by various collectors, that it was only the components, but now I'm not so sure.

OrthoFan

Inside the Case: Horn

The horn is solid steel that wraps right around the case. The seal between the base of the tone arm and the horn is just a piece of brown felt which probably does not do a very good job of sealing. The input of the horn is lower than the supports for the motorboard, and the felt is not nearly thick enough to bridge the gap between the tone arm and the horn. This should probably be amended.

The bottom of the motorboard is devoid of any interesting features other than the motor and the felt seal mentioned above. The motorboard plywood is a bit too thin for its purpose, and so it sags a bit from the weight of the motor.

Reproducer without Guard

The diaphragm appears to be metal. The rubber gasket/bushing material in the socket for the tone arm reached its best before date a long time ago.

The Motor

The motor is a General Industries, single spring Junior. It appears to have been lubricated entirely with a black grease which has become a bit waxy/gummy but is still somewhat serviceable, at least as far as the coarser gears are concerned. It seems too heavy for the governor worm gear, though. Whatever is in the spring housing, away from the air, is probably still OK. The spring does not stick and makes no noise winding or unwinding. I will clean it up and re-lube it. I don't think I will bother with the spring for the moment, too much disassembly for something that doesn't seem to be presenting any problem.

Just got fun, my impressions and 2 cents...
The horn is magnific, very similar to that of the famous hmv102, but the mouth seems larger. It surely give a pretty loud warm full sound. Great!
The joint with the tonearm... If you're going to substitute the former pins that fixed the tonearm base with suitable bolts and nuts, you'll be able to put pressure on the joint and seal it perfectly. The brown felt you probably could add another layer, cut from fresh new similar felt to ensure the airtightness. In these joints I usually add some grease to impregnate the felt and make a better seal, butt probably it would not be necessary. If properly pressed, these joints are airtight enough.
The motor looks robust and powerful. I never had one of these (not sold here) but our American colleagues have a very good opinion about the General Industries products. It seems very well done. I would disassemble, clean and properly regrease the gears, then soft good oil on the governor bearings and the sliding sleeve, and you'll get it running soft and strong. The removing of old grease and cleaning, though, could make it more noisy of the gears area but worn. This is typical. Old gummy grease hides out the imperfections and makes it sluggish (bad) but silent (good), so it's up to you. Besides that, the gears imperfections are accommodated, and when you remove the gears and reassemble them, you'll never get them exactly in the same positions they were before. But freshly greased, it will gain power.
I'm inclined as you in not touching the spring if it runs well. You can do it later. Maybe only open the barrel and drop some oil in it, to soften a bit the old grease... But this is not very correct, as per experts... Some of these greases are very good and still are fresh. I had a Columbia motor and another Aeolian, that are still with their original (?) spring grease. I saw it so good, that I only added some oil (only a bit) and let them alone. They work like champions.
The soundbox seems also very good. The pivot system for the needlebar is good. If it has no side play, I would let it alone, only a drop of oil at each pivot, no disassembling if it works. The neck rubber of better to be replaced with a supple new one. You can make it from a strip of suitable rubber sheet, forming a small cylinder. It's a bit of trial and error until you get the right length so the joint between the edges gets the right pressure and is airtight. This is vital. You can also seal the joint with silicone or something to ensure no air pressure escapes, and all the sound energy goes into the tonearm.
A very nice machine!

Inigo wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:29 pm If you're going to substitute the former pins that fixed the tonearm base with suitable bolts and nuts, you'll be able to put pressure on the joint and seal it perfectly. The brown felt you probably could add another layer, cut from fresh new similar felt to ensure the airtightness. In these joints I usually add some grease to impregnate the felt and make a better seal, butt probably it would not be necessary. If properly pressed, these joints are airtight enough.

A light bulb just went on in my head.

There are three holes in the flange around the inlet for the horn. There are three corresponding holes in the motorboard. There were supposed to be three small wood screws securing the horn to the motorboard and forming a good seal with the flange. I found two of the missing screws, one in the case and one in the horn. There is also a hole for a screw in the horn near its mouth. A wood screw gores through the motorboard and horn and then into a small square of plywood that acts as sort of a nut. The horn is supposed to come out of the case with the motorboard and go back in with it as single unit. There is a metal strip, finished in the same colour and pattern as the inside the horn mouth (but without flocking), that runs along the back of the case and is screwed in to secure the horn. I don't think I can change the way the arm is mounted because I would not be able to put nuts on any screws because they would interfere with the horn seal. I could, however, drill holes in the flange around the inlet to match the holes in the motorboard for the tone arm rivets and then hold it all together with screws and bolts. I don't think I will do this, though.

Inigo wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:29 pm A very nice machine!

Thanks.

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