The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It's also worth remembering that after 1915, all BA cylinders were dubbed from diamond discs, so if you find a BA that you like released after that date, it is also available on DD, & I'm sure most of us have a substancial collection of post-1915 cylinders that we love to listen to.
Heaps of really popular artists recorded for Edison's DD's like Billy Murray, Aileen Stanley, Jones & Hare, Collins & Stanley, Irving Kaufman, Van Epps, Golden & Hughes, Ed Meeker, Steve Porter, Ada Jones, Cal Stewart, & even some of the stuff by the likes of Arthur Fields, Walter Van Brunt, Campbell & Gillete, Elisabeth Spencer, Thomas Chalmers etc are quite enjoyable listening. Then there are the many dance bands, orchestras & marching bands too.
Here's just a few of my favorite etched label disc. Surface noise can be a problem with these, but with the lid closed it is reduced significantly.

Old Bill Bailey by Billy Murray- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNLeeYazoZI
I Love A Piano by Walter Van Brunt- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALvrAsDDIYk
She Walks In Her Husbands Sleep by Aileen Stanley- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs5tnwxzZyE
Along The Rocky Road To Dublin by Premier Quartet- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNbnQGCokw8
My Yokohama Girl by Arthur Fields- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKxnoj4PSGE

And some non electric non dance paper labels-

We'll Build A Dear Little Cute Little Love Nest by Walter Scanlan- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB4icwgCidw
Tune In To L.O.V.E. by Billy Jones- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JriYuwU-REc
In 1999 by Al Bernard- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjFnaQ1Si6E
Young Tom O'Devon by Athur Middleton- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp8qNLL2fg0
Something by Elisabeth Spencer & Walter Van Brunt- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ-thwmEImI

And a few electric dance tunes-

Rhapsody In Rhythm by The McAlpineers- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZTsVoc2ekI
The One That I Love Loves Me by Golden Gate Orch- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t54Ipb-Tai8
I Faw Down An Go Boom by Arthur Fields & His Assasinators- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1wF3qphFgc
That's My Weakness Now by B.A.Rolfe & Orch- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p42Up8pF4Q

Edisone wrote:

estott wrote:"Friscoe" was a very successful xylophone player in Vaudeville- he probably would have had a following...

For your good reason, I thank you. Does anyone really think that Friscoe came up with this number just for an Edison record?

Estott and Edisone: Thanks for the perspective and context. I suppose it's just tough to put oneself in the mindset/taste of an era generations removed from our own. One just has to think of the period where Hawaiian music was hugely popular (on all record labels)...and how the vast majority of those recordings are regarded today.

gregbogantz wrote:Edison's acoustic recordings of piano have always impressed me as being very good sounding, for being acoustic. Both on DD and cylinder records. This was probably due to his choice of an upright piano and the arrangement of it toward the recording horn in the studio. It looks cumbersome when one sees pictures of the recording setup, but the captured sound was superior in my view to other acoustic piano recordings. Diva performers probably didn't like this arrangement and perhaps made snide comments about it which may be the source of some of this angst between Edison and some of his talent.

The Diva comment aside...which Frank has dealt with, ... if Edison had used even a small grand ( like they did the Rachmaninoff Diamond Disc ads) the sound would have been lovely. The Rachmaninoff records do sound good: they're superb recordings of an upright piano which is rather deficient in the the bass. ( I'm speaking here in my professional capacity hehhe )
The weird thing about all this is that all the other majors had been using grands since about 1910. The other major pianist...after 1910 or so... who was made to record on an upright was Feruccio Busoni, and believe me he wasn't happy either. He also had the misfortune to die on the eve of electrical recording.
To show what the competition was up to, here is Eugene Ysaye in the Columbia Studio and you will note the Steinway Concert grand being used for accompaniment. The top would make a nice sound reflector. I can tell you that they still do: I spend a significant amount of time helping the engineers at the CBC by fiddling with the angle so that it reflects nicely towards the mics. At one session for Sony we ended up cutting a broom handle and fitting it in so that it was JUST so . All I could think was " This is SO acoustic era ! "
Jim

gramophoneshane wrote:That's My Weakness Now by B.A.Rolfe & Orch- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p42Up8pF4Q

I know this is rare guys but I listened to it and know why it is rare.
The Columbia 1444 by Paul Whiteman is so much more advanced. The song is
1928 but the arrangement sounds like 1920. I understand liking it for the
rarity,especially on a cylinder. But great music??

Rolfe was usually "fast and LOUD", cranking out the stuff on his radio program. I think Whiteman wasn't too thrilled when he had to compete with his Old Gold Hour. Sounding fresh and new, while filling an hour each week must have been tough. That's about the time he hired William Grant Still to help crank out new arrangements.



ps: I'm still looking for a particular cylinder, which demonstrates Edison's strange tastes. It is Beethoven's Fifth, condensed to fit a 2 minute record, and played by The Edison Grand Opera Concert Symphony Banjo Band. 26 banjos & one tuba. Very rare.

gramophoneshane wrote: She Walks In Her Husbands Sleep by Aileen Stanley

Aileen Stanley = loads of personality that she knew how project to the recording machinery. I like her a lot, though the only Diamond Disc I own of hers is a song called Anna In Indiana, which is a rather tedious song that even she can't save.

Skihawx wrote:

gramophoneshane wrote:That's My Weakness Now by B.A.Rolfe & Orch- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p42Up8pF4Q

I know this is rare guys but I listened to it and know why it is rare.
The Columbia 1444 by Paul Whiteman is so much more advanced. The song is
1928 but the arrangement sounds like 1920. I understand liking it for the
rarity,especially on a cylinder. But great music??

B.A. Rolfe's Birmingham Bertha on Edison Needle Type is great tune, and quite contemporary sounding for it's time (1929.) Perhaps I'll put transfer of it up one of these days.

For one, you have to look at locations the machines were promoted, Edison was promoted for the country, and Victor, more for the city. At least Edison records always had the best sound quality, perhaps Victor could record with that quality, however the steel needle would knock the highs off, and make the record harsh after a few plays. Edison certainly used purcussion, bones, and sleigh bells more, while it was not as recordable with lateral system. I would say all companies had a blance of blase' and hot numbers, people really, look at what sheet music you find. Everyone puts that revisionist spin on history, you got to think like the era and it becomes clearer.

I have a lot of later Edison pop DD records. I am of the opinion that those bands that recorded on Edison used more "stock" arrangements, rather than the custom hotter arrangements many of the bands used on other labels. I know because for many years I was in a 1920's band, and I acquired lots of stock band arrangements of 1920's pop tunes, and you can see how closely the recordings "match" to the stock chart, except for cuts to fit the recording time. But, never-the-less there are good hot tunes on DD. I think the very last electric DD's were compromised because of the need to keep the recording time short enough to fit the Edison Needle Cut discs.

In popular music, during the 1910's, 1920's and 1930's (and maybe later) one could purchase a "Stock Chart" for almost every popular song..with all the parts for all the standard band instrumentation written out. Many bands bought these charts and played them "as-is", or added their own little bit of "flare" with a hot solo or two. The biggest bands, like Whitemans, and such had custom arrangements by very high quality arrangers, such as Ferde Grofe.

The piano sheet music cannot always be used as a guide for things.

I tend to differ in the opinion that the Diamond Disc was promoted primarily rurally. I think Edison promoted the Blue Amberol to rural markets, and the Diamond Disc to city markets. There was never a "cheap" Diamond Disc player.

The xylophone doing the Sextet from Lucia was just another example of the kind of things audiences went to a Vaudeville show to see. Note Eddie Peabody's first record--Miserere from Il Trovatore [and I've forgotten the flip side] on his Plectrum Banjo, unaccompanied. The record industry inadvertently preserved some of what we today would consider the strangest of popular entertainment of their day. That's one of the charms of it for me. Bob Ault