The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

epigramophone wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:18 pm I don't have a YouTube channel but the sound of the Chromogram, which I still own, was transformed when I replaced the original soundbox with a rebuilt Meltrope II. It is bright and forward, but with none of the harshness I have heard on some HMV163's.

That's too bad if you don't have youtube. We all want to listen to your machine with the same condition using bamboo needles with a good condition record. Really good machines should sound good with bamboo needles not with steel needles. Thanks.

Hideki

epigramophone wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:18 pm I don't have a YouTube channel but the sound of the Chromogram, which I still own, was transformed when I replaced the original soundbox with a rebuilt Meltrope II. It is bright and forward, but with none of the harshness I have heard on some HMV163's.

I have a question about the needle you use. Is it steel needles or bamboo (fiber) needles? If it is bamboo needles, your machine sounds good, then is a great machine, but if they are steel needles, I doubt that your machine is a real good one. Please demonstrate it to us how your machine performs. Thanks.

Hideki

Sometimes steel vs bamboo comes down to the quality of the records. While at a friend’s today, we found a 12” of a rabbi singing in either Hebrew or Yiddish, I wasn’t really sure which, and didn’t read the label carefully. It sounded absolutely horrible with a fibre needle, as the worn record ruined the tip quickly. Played with a steel needle it sounded very sweet indeed, even with the limited horn on his pre-orthophonic Victor victrola. I don’t have a lot of love for the older cabinet machines, but with the right records they can be very pleasant.

I am looking forward to listening to these videos tomorrow when I am able to use better speakers than my phone has.

Personally, I use loud tone steel needles almost exclusively.
I've never enjoyed the muted tones and volume of bamboo or cactus.
I just love the full clear loud volume you get from steel, almost as if the band is in the room with you. And judging by the popularity of loud tone steel being used for over 120 yrs, I guess a lot of people must have preferred them too.
Each to their own I suppose.

Watanabehi wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:53 pm

epigramophone wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:18 pm I don't have a YouTube channel but the sound of the Chromogram, which I still own, was transformed when I replaced the original soundbox with a rebuilt Meltrope II. It is bright and forward, but with none of the harshness I have heard on some HMV163's.

I have a question about the needle you use. Is it steel needles or bamboo (fiber) needles? If it is bamboo needles, your machine sounds good, then is a great machine, but if they are steel needles, I doubt that your machine is a real good one. Please demonstrate it to us how your machine performs. Thanks.

Hideki

I have always been sceptical about the claims made for bamboo needles and the mumbo jumbo which surrounds them.
When I use fibre needles I prefer thorns, my favourites being the black IM variety.
When demonstrating a machine there is nothing more disappointing than a bamboo needle breaking down during a record.
For everyday playing I use soft or extra soft tone steel needles, which with good well adjusted soundboxes are quite loud enough for indoor use. I only use loud tone for playing portables outdoors.
I have records from my father's (1914-2010) and grandfather's (1885-1963) collections which have always been carefully played with steel needles and show no visible or audible signs of wear.

epigramophone wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:18 am
When I use fibre needles I prefer thorns, my favourites being the black IM variety.

I'd have to agree with you 100%.
While I seldom use them, IM's seem to deliver the best sound out of all the various fibre and bamboo needles I've tried over the years, and using the IM sharpener always gives you a good repoint.
Bamboos I've always found a hit and miss to repoint unless the cutter is absolutely razor sharp, otherwise they do break down quite quickly compared to the IM's.

I use bamboo needles but not as frequently as I would like to ........ because I am lazy basically. I still maintain that baking them in an oven improves performance.

The 'secret' (to me) is finding a bamboo needle sharpener which 'does the job' well. For example, I have found HMV sharpeners to be pretty useless.

Otherwise, I use steel needles - including tungsten.

I haven't really 'got around' to using my black IM thorn needles yet.

As mentoned, there is such a lot of psuedo science 'mumbo jumbo' etc when it comes to 'best needles', 'best gramophones' etc.

poodling around wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:09 am
I haven't really 'got around' to using my black IM thorn needles yet.

You should try your IM's.
They tend to out last bamboos before the point breaks down, and if you don't have a sharpener for thorns, you can pretty successfully repoint them using fine sandpaper.
They don't seem to be effected by the atmosphere as much as bamboos either so you shouldn't need to bake them in the oven.
Ideally though, both types should be stored in an airtight container containing silica gel if you're going to use them regularly.

If you bake the bamboo needles or use the susudake bamboo, they will be less effected by moisture in the atmosphere. It is well known that heat treating wood will reduce its ability to absorb moisture from the atmosphere.

My experience is that a record that will eat a bamboo needle up will also eat up a thorn or BCN. Some records you can get multiple platings from either one, some they are toast before a minute of music is played.

For me, whether to use fibre of any type or steel depends to some extent on the record. Some records benefit from the highs being tamed by the thorn. Some records sound much better with steel needles.

gramophoneshane wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:04 am

poodling around wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:09 am
I haven't really 'got around' to using my black IM thorn needles yet.

You should try your IM's.
They tend to out last bamboos before the point breaks down, and if you don't have a sharpener for thorns, you can pretty successfully repoint them using fine sandpaper.
They don't seem to be effected by the atmosphere as much as bamboos either so you shouldn't need to bake them in the oven.
Ideally though, both types should be stored in an airtight container containing silica gel if you're going to use them regularly.

Thanks for the advice gramophoneshane. I do have a selection of thorn sharpeners, two Davey roll-right's (one black, one blue), one of those Meltrope one's that looks like an egg-whisk, two IM ones (one metal ww2 and one bakelite) and another different IM one. Interesting about fine sandpaper though. I have no excuse then - so I will try one over Christmas !