The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Marco, thank you for the information.

The book says that Condor needles were not sold by the gramophone co. in Britain but rather Melba needles were sold in their place. The English language tins suggest otherwise. It seems there may have been a period where Melba was dropped and replaced by Condor. I do not refer to the later long-playing Condor needles.

So why the name ‘Condor’ presumably not from the little wings found on the needles? Perhaps it is the sharp hardness of the birds beak? The name is used today to sell the steel points of darts.

I've never tried either needle, and I have no idea what effect the unusual designs were intended to have, but here is a side by side of the Melba versus the Condor.

Those are interesting...

And of course, the German tins.

Yes very interesting. I had no idea the Melba needles were marked as such.

Initially, especially with "Melba" needles, the "better" and more expensive, i.e. tougher, steel grade apparently played an important role in cleaning the record groove of production residues. This sales argument soon changed as the pressing methods improved. Both the newly introduced "Condor" and the "Melba" were marketed as concert needles. Due to the thickening of the ends (wings), which have to be at right angles to the groove, see the recommendation above that the "Melba" needle must not turn round, these should produce stronger tones. On the other hand, the background noise is said to increase, which is why these needles were more recommended for demonstrators in larger rooms. The considerably higher price was justified with an individual optical inspection of each needle.

I love the needle tins, but I tend to scrounge them off my friendly neighbourhood Gramophone man.
What I would like to do is use water transfers to make my own tins, just for fun and giggles. Problem is I can´t find any tins of the right shape or size, neither on amazon or alibaba or any other tin box selling company.
So where would one find nice little tins?

Isn't it "funny" how literature pretends Melbas and Condors to be the latter a rebranding of the first, while the picture clearly proves that they have absolutely nothing in common and are two completely different products? The point shape, the mallet stroke, the shaft size, even the writings (bas-reliev vs. embossing) are radically different. Even the metal alloy doesn't look the same.

As a side note, it's the first time that I see a writing bas-relieved on a needle as in the Melbas. What a classy touch!

Marco Gilardetti wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:09 am Isn't it "funny" how literature pretends Melbas and Condors to be the latter a rebranding of the first, while the picture clearly proves that they have absolutely nothing in common and are two completely different products? The point shape, the mallet stroke, the shaft size, even the writings (bas-reliev vs. embossing) are radically different. Even the metal alloy doesn't look the same.

As a side note, it's the first time that I see a writing bas-relieved on a needle as in the Melbas. What a classy touch!

I've only seen 3 Melba in my life, and I purchased two of them, and have a total of 6 needles. So I've never been too keen to experiment with them. The Condor needles are much easier to come by, but I can't say I noticed a huge difference in them versus other needles.

But I do have a thing for the HMV tins (trying to get all the different types and languages). A couple of my favorites. I don't think I've ever seen the Russian or the early HMV anywhere else.

And why these late condor needles in plastic boxes with a polar bear? From where?