The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Inigo wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 12:18 pm What I would really love was to find a Spanish example of any of the great machines of 1910. I had an uncle that had his parent's one, a marvellous senior monarch with wood horn, with which I played as a teenager. But it was lost in the battles of life...

What you need is this, the HMV 13C, only one away from the ultimate top-of-the-line model:

https://www.antiguedades.es/en/antique- ... -1915.html

Jose, the proprietor, is a very amenable guy and easy to work with. His packing is exceptionally good too! He incorrectly describes the horn as "mahogany" here but in actual fact it IS oak, which is completely correct for this machine.

Yes, I know this example, I've been watching it on the web many times...
I've also seen photos of another model which has yet more elaborated ornament, including four golden angels in the corners engraving the records, which are small miniature records inserted at the corners as if they emerged from under the machine, with labels and all... !! I don't remember where I saw it... Maybe also here.
Which one was the top of the line model?

Found the rare example in the same site
https://www.antiguedades.es/es/gramofon ... -1910.html

But I don't trust this seller very much, I've seen rare things there, as this example
https://www.antiguedades.es/es/gramofon ... -1925.html

He says the motor is not original, but nothing about the Columbia plano reflex tonearm and viva tonal soundbox!

And other things I've seen that make me suspect... Not all what it's seen is authentic

Inigo wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2024 11:50 am Yes, I know this example, I've been watching it on the web many times...
I've also seen photos of another model which has yet more elaborated ornament, including four golden angels in the corners engraving the records, which are small miniature records inserted at the corners as if they emerged from under the machine, with labels and all... !! I don't remember where I saw it... Maybe also here.
Which one was the top of the line model?

Found the rare example in the same site
https://www.antiguedades.es/es/gramofon ... -1910.html

But I don't trust this seller very much, I've seen rare things there, as this example
https://www.antiguedades.es/es/gramofon ... -1925.html

He says the motor is not original, but nothing about the Columbia plano reflex tonearm and viva tonal soundbox!

And other things I've seen that make me suspect... Not all what it's seen is authentic

The link you gave that I have highlighted is the top model!

As for not trusting the seller, I can only speak from personal experience and say that unlike a lot of "dealers" I've dealt with, you do actually receive exactly what you buy without any hidden surprises or "Oh, I must have missed that....." moments from the seller afterwards (add your own favorite from that long list including repainted horns sold as original, cabinet repairs, infilled holes, woodworm etc). Jose does provide 360 degree videos of machines playing a complete record and many high resolution photos, taken in bright light including close-ups. In other words, he doesn't try to hide or disguise anything.

I would agree that the HMV / Columbia table model looks dodgy from an authenticity perspective but he does not assemble machines or swap parts; he simply sells things as they are found and come to him.

Inigo wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2024 11:50 am But I don't trust this seller very much, I've seen rare things there, as this example
https://www.antiguedades.es/es/gramofon ... -1925.html

He says the motor is not original, but nothing about the Columbia plano reflex tonearm and viva tonal soundbox!

And other things I've seen that make me suspect... Not all what it's seen is authentic

I have glanced over this seller's site since some years, and yes, some of the stuff he sells is either dodgy or clearly fake, like the frankenphone tabletop that Iñigo pointed out. On the bright side, as Steve mentioned, the photos are always clear and detailed. Given that he is one of the very few specialized dealers left in Europe, there is not much competition left: only Guido Severinjs in Holland comes to mind.

There is of course this guy nearby. I actually have the Standgrammophone shown on the website.
https://grammophonwerkstatt.de/

That's true, and it's something that I hadn't taken into account before, and for me it definitely puts the balance on him as a good seller.

slammer wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:57 am There is of course this guy nearby. I actually have the Standgrammophone shown on the website.
https://grammophonwerkstatt.de/

It seems he sells Crapophones too...

JerryVan wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2024 6:33 am

slammer wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:57 am There is of course this guy nearby. I actually have the Standgrammophone shown on the website.
https://grammophonwerkstatt.de/

It seems he sells Crapophones too...

Exactly. Front page of website: a Crapophone! Jose does not sell Crapophones. He might get the odd Frankenphone, here and there (but these derive more from previous owners' historic "repairs" than anything else) with the justification that it is hard to find much anything in Spain to sell, beyond what older collectors or estates turn out.

In my collecting career, 46 years, I've seen but only a few Spanish horn models, let it stay apart the very very few original Gramophone machines, and yet less in good shape and complete. My uncle had that monarch senior I told about (don't remember the Spanish model number) and a guy at a record store that has a no5 little horn machine with an impressive metal glory horn, all original but out of order... And I offered to go there and repair it on the place for free, just for the joy of seeing it work but he didn't want to do it. A pity. I pass the store many times and see that machine languishing there quiet and sad, and this makes me cry.... But...

Inigo wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2024 8:18 am In my collecting career, 46 years, I've seen but only a few Spanish horn models, let it stay apart the very very few original Gramophone machines, and yet less in good shape and complete. My uncle had that monarch senior I told about (don't remember the Spanish model number) and a guy at a record store that has a no5 little horn machine with an impressive metal glory horn, all original but out of order... And I offered to go there and repair it on the place for free, just for the joy of seeing it work but he didn't want to do it. A pity. I pass the store many times and see that machine languishing there quiet and sad, and this makes me cry.... But...

Yes, a great pity.

I have just two Spanish models, the HMV No. 9 (my personal favourite Art Nouveau influenced design) and a 13C (from Jose). Neither are exactly mint condition with the 9 requiring a horn repaint and the 13C showing signs of wear and tear but both are very rare. I have also bought a possibly unique Colonial Indian HMV based on the HMV 130 but twice the size with oil-bath motor! Jose thought it was Spanish but it's definitely an Indian model.