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Don't the 202 and 203 tonearms differ only by the galvanic finish?

Marco Gilardetti wrote: Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:51 am Don't the 202 and 203 tonearms differ only by the galvanic finish?

No. The arms were modified during the manufacturing period to improve geometry. I have owned a 194 and 202 simultaneously and the 194 shares the same arm as the 203 and it was different in shape and length to the 202. I cannot recall the specifics as it was a long time ago but there are differences.

Interesting, thanks - didn't know about this detail.

Steve wrote: Fri Mar 28, 2025 6:13 am No. The arms were modified during the manufacturing period to improve geometry. I have owned a 194 and 202 simultaneously and the 194 shares the same arm as the 203 and it was different in shape and length to the 202. I cannot recall the specifics as it was a long time ago but there are differences.

Steve's clarification reinforces my point: finding tone arms for 202s/203s is as hard or even harder than their horns. I've never seen a spare tonearm for sale, while there were a couple of 202 horns sold on eBay some years ago. And judging from the ads and auction outcomes over the last decade, complete 202s and 203s are rarer than the EMGs and Experts.

CarlosV wrote: Fri Mar 28, 2025 7:39 am

Steve wrote: Fri Mar 28, 2025 6:13 am No. The arms were modified during the manufacturing period to improve geometry. I have owned a 194 and 202 simultaneously and the 194 shares the same arm as the 203 and it was different in shape and length to the 202. I cannot recall the specifics as it was a long time ago but there are differences.

Steve's clarification reinforces my point: finding tone arms for 202s/203s is as hard or even harder than their horns. I've never seen a spare tonearm for sale, while there were a couple of 202 horns sold on eBay some years ago. And judging from the ads and auction outcomes over the last decade, complete 202s and 203s are rarer than the EMGs and Experts.

Carlos, you make a very interesting point here, one which I think I'd have to agree with. There certainly does appear to be more EMG's and Experts in fully functional state currently than available 202's and 203's. Most of the latter disappeared to the Far East in the 1990's amid eye-watering auction prices, and judging by the asking prices today when they infrequently turn up for sale in Japan, I'd hazard a guess that surviving families of the previous owners who might have retired from collecting or become incapacitated through ill-health / old age or perhaps, passed away now, they will not likely return to Britain or mainland Europe any day soon.

It is not a regularly publicised fact, but even when 202's / 203's were fetching £15,000, the agents and dealers who bought them for clients in the Far East were often making 100% markup!

Steve wrote: Fri Mar 28, 2025 6:13 am

Marco Gilardetti wrote: Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:51 am Don't the 202 and 203 tonearms differ only by the galvanic finish?

No. The arms were modified during the manufacturing period to improve geometry. I have owned a 194 and 202 simultaneously and the 194 shares the same arm as the 203 and it was different in shape and length to the 202. I cannot recall the specifics as it was a long time ago but there are differences.

These are the tone arms of HMV202 and HMV 203. What are the differences?

They weren't always identical. The swan necks and length can vary. The two pictured look similar but without measurements or more photos I can't comment. Are they both your machines?

Steve wrote: Sat Apr 05, 2025 4:45 am They weren't always identical. The swan necks and length can vary. The two pictured look similar but without measurements or more photos I can't comment. Are they both your machines?

No, they are not mine.

Regarding reproducing 202/203 horns, I wonder if the folded horns of the 163, 193/4, 202/3 all share the same geometry. I know a fellow who does large scale metal 3-D printing and even mentioned to him the idea of reproducing an HMV horn. I showed him photos of a spare 163 horn I have and he mentioned that taking it apart and reproducing sub-assemblies to be joined as a final assembly would be possible. I also asked him about "scaling-up" the patterns and he said "no problem, how big do you want it?"

The discussion didn't get to metallurgy, so I don't know what's available or their relative acoustical properties. Didn't get into cost, either.

If anyone has access to horn geometry data, that would be a start.

Robert

Wow. Hope it sounds as good as it looks.
I saw this dumped the other day but it has gone