The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

ChesterCheetah18 wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:31 pm

MisterGramophone wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:10 pm

gramophone-georg wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 2:25 pm

Actually the earliest AV records were black vertical pressings, except for the colourful splatter special records pressed in celebration of the end of WW1.
They went to black again in the early 15000 series, likely in anticipation of electrical recording, which required a stronger shellac to avoid breaking down when playing, as Gennett found out.

How do I know if one is vertical? If it is, can I play it on this?

The machine shown is currently set up to play vertical records. You must use a sapphire ball stylus though. Never use a steel needle on a vertical record.

Steve

ChesterCheetah18 wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:31 pm The machine shown is currently set up to play vertical records. You must use a sapphire ball stylus though. Never use a steel needle on a vertical record.

drh wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:28 pm

ChesterCheetah18 wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:31 pm The machine shown is currently set up to play vertical records. You must use a sapphire ball stylus though. Never use a steel needle on a vertical record.

Actually, it's not quite that simple. (When is *anything* in this hobby ever simple?!?!?) Most vertical cut records do require a jeweled stylus--sapphire ball for Pathé and its imitators/progeny (inter alia, US Rex and Rishell, French ones like Henri, Diamond, Ideal, Aspir, Perfectaphone, Aerophone, etc.); diamond for Edison, and in general I think it's safe to say that with Edison, for the most part, one is best advised to stick to Edison's own machines--but some vertical labels did play with steel needles. Lyric is one example. Par-o-ket is another. I think the same would be true for very early OKeh, Gennett, and Vocalion, before those labels switched from vertical to lateral cut. When in doubt, look for any reference to "sapphire" on the label, in which case stay far away from steel needles, but that rule of thumb is hardly infallible. What *is* safe to say: when in doubt, don't apply a steel needle to a vertical cut record before you've done some research and established how it was meant to be played.

MisterGramophone wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:10 pm

gramophone-georg wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 2:25 pm

epigramophone wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 7:30 am The earliest Aeolian Vocalion discs were pressed in a similar reddish brown shellac. Needless to say, Vocalion claimed it to be superior to black, but they soon discontinued it in favour of black.
A more attractive colour was the dark blue used by American Odeon on discs which were said to be for export only, but this did not prevent US Columbia from taking legal action which forced them to cease production.
Blue reappeared in the 1930's on US Columbia's Royal Blue label, said to be pressed on a super fine grade of shellac.

Actually the earliest AV records were black vertical pressings, except for the colourful splatter special records pressed in celebration of the end of WW1.
They went to black again in the early 15000 series, likely in anticipation of electrical recording, which required a stronger shellac to avoid breaking down when playing, as Gennett found out.

How do I know if one is vertical? If it is, can I play it on this?

MisterGramophone wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:19 pm
Where would I get sapphire needles? Also, how would I know if a record from Rex, Grey Gull, Vocalion, Brunswick, or Pathé is vertical or horizontal without knowing the date it was recorded?