WDC wrote:Old boxes may also have additional chemical issues such as acidified cardboard which cannot be too healthy for a cylinder stored inside.
Agreed! My wax cylinders are mostly stored in a cabinet without their boxes, I began to notice after a really humid summer one year that the lining inside a few 2 minute cylinder boxes actually felt damp and one or two cylinders seemed to develop spots in very little time. Storage conditions, as many have noted, are certainly the most important factor. I have almost all my cylinders in one room of the house, the room that stays the coolest and most consistent temperature-wise. I think that certainly owes to the fact that, at least since I noticed the damp in those few and changed it, I haven't had any wax cylinders "go south" on me.
I have a couple of those pegged carrying cases that hold something like 48 cylinders each in my attic. Maybe I'll move my newly cleaned 2 minute waxes into those when I'm done. Of course, I won't put them back up in the attic.
Shawn Borri, the Brown Wax KING here! Yes never shave an original brown wax, unless there is not one note, that can be heard on them, there was only so many of those early recordings made. (Did you know that about 70,000 early Columbia Brown Wax, previous to 1897 were recorded on EDISON blanks??)Clean the the following way only- with a camel hair brush, or , if you are brave distilled water the same temperature as the record, and labtone detergent, have one container for washing and another for rinsing then wipe off,with a lint less cotton rag, and let air dry, this at least cleans them, as the prescribed method used at the Library of Congress, which I was a runner up, for archivist there, I was proud just to get to the interview stage, when they opened up the new one in Culpeper VA.
Bell Tainter worked on an ozokerite covered cardboard blank as early as 1885. Non metallic soap Edison standard size cylinders, were experimented with, as early as January 1887, There was useful formulas made using stearic acid, carnuaba wax, and ceresine, around May 1888. Metallic soap was first experimented with around October of 1888 using aluminum and lead sterate, and by December of 1888 formula # 957 was adopted as regular and made of aluminum stearate and tempered with red olaic acid, by May of 1889 957 decomposed, that is the olaic acid came to the top of the wax, and caused a heavy bluish white encrustation resembling mold, and also a heavy oily film. There were many experimental records recorded from December to May, and all these recordings are lost due to chemical decomposition. Aylsworth finally developed standard brown wax, composed of aluminum sodium stearate and ceresine wax was adopted as regular in August of 1889, and only slight changes such as using less sodium hydroxide, and adding sodium carbonate in place, because it was cheaper and of more pure form. The aluminum previous to 1896 in Edison brown wax was derived from acetate of alumina, and you had to cook all the acetic acid from the wax, or else this too would decompose the records. Edison used Lewis' Red Devil lye in his records, and Mitchel's brand stearic acid. There was a time when a purchasing agent purchased Proctor and Gamble stearic, and it was of a single pressed variety, commonly known as stearin, these had too much glycerine in the records, and caused tiny bubbles in the wax, not like pin holes, but actual bubbles. In 1896 Edison used aluminum hydrate in the records and this is sheet aluminum dissolved in a solution of sodium carbonate, sodium hydroxide and water, this is added to stearic acid in a very particular mannor of which I am not at liberty to share, it is the key part of blank making., and still a trade secret. The aluminum sodium stearate was then solidified into blocks to cool, and then it was seasoned, and re-melted with scrap wax, and filtered, ceresine was then added, ceresine is like paraffin but of less oil content and of a smaller granular structure, and aids in the cutting action of the stylus, but most important in keeping moisture from attacking the stearic acid, which was derived from beef tallow, and has a host of chemical problems, when used alone, such as food for bacteria, and becauming somewhat oily. Good recording wax, is made at dangerous temperatures, and if they are not attained result in the records decomposing. Do not be scared to ask me questions, or call me on these matters, I am one of the few people who has hands on experience making these compounds and using them on a daily basis, for the production of several tons of brown wax composition. By the way Columbia used Edison blanks from 1889- august of 1894. Shawn Borri,, audio scientist.
I store my brown wax cylinders only in the oversized Edison boxes, the ones with the cardboard center tube. This way, nothing touches the cylinder surface while in storage.
There is nothing wrong with self promotion, we all do it, and I am a rebel in all respects. Negative feedback makes me work all t he harder. My challenge to You then, on this list, is to make some blanks, of exceptional quality, can you do that? I have and can! Mr. Starkton, I want to see your wonderful new blanks!
Now this all makes me want to take cylinders to the edge, I shared some recording experiments, a few years ago, and played cyinders that could not be played acoustically, and only on the Archeophone at Union, an some have heard and attest to the quality of those recordings. . By the way I am a supporter of new cylinders, like the Vulcans and the Wizard records, and the work Norman B has done, is very good.
Fort those who are to work on this challenge, you need a primer in the making of phonogram blanks, so here is some how to films on making the blanks, although many of the methods have improved greatly since the time this was posted. http://youtu.be/wlvdyy0Y6Ow
You know, the sound quality of new blanks sounds pretty good with a rebuilt Edison recorder as sold to the public, but I can't help but think that the "Studio" recorders were more sophisticated. Does anyone know how a studio recorder head differs?
First, let's say everybody has a certain corner to know the ropes. But you have to admit that "KING" in capital letters was kind of a through ball... In that context I can't see any insulting attitude, there is no questioning at all, that you know how to make blanks. I'd love to call myself the Kaiser of digital cylinder transfers but I am nowhere near that. Instead it's great to simply receive some acknowledging feedback from time to time for the few humble things I have been able to contribute.
Anyway, just took a shot on your videos, very interesting and better than the last set. It shows pretty well the most important steps of making the actual wax composition. Thanks for posting!
There was a previous post of a studio recorder somewhere in the past. Interestingly the Edison studio recorders were floating recorders with a basic design pretty much as those made by Columbia. Pretty interesting how superior Columbia technology actually is.
You are right Norman, You are very good though at cylinder transcription, and your new device is really useful for saving the old media. Anyway the King part was made in a joking way anyhow, and not serious, it seems that in order to strike up a conversation in this group, to get the ball rolling, a little controversy is needed, that is all. There is much to be learned in the making of the blanks still, the largest factor, seems to be that you can process them the same time every time, and weigh the components to a tenth or hundredth of a gram, and the wax still turns out different every time, it seems the heat curve to making them is very important, and I now follow this very carefully, I have at least for seven batches now, following an exacting procedure in the way I heat it, and duplicated a streak and star free compound, so I got that at least taken care of, it was the largest challenge of all, and has taken over 10 years of research to arrive at this point. There are several odd observations about how big to make the blanks, as in diameter, it seems original records vary greatly in thickness, and making the blanks too thick, results in fouling the upper part of the limit loop, while thin cylinders, the cutting stylus does not always contact the surface, and on other machines do. I have an original brown wax blank that I use as a standard, and what I base all the completed blanks by. The challenge is if I have no blanks ready made, I have to set aside the rare occasion when I have a day off my regular job, as most parts require a whole days work, and make the wax, one day, pour it into pans to solidify. The wax is in chucks so when I mold records, I just use what I plan on molding for the day, and cast those blanks up, then this requires the rough castings to set a day, so the next day I shape the ends of the blank, and cove the thin end, and also ream and fit the blanks to the standard phonograph mandrel. The blanks sit a minimum of a week, but 30 days is best, before those blanks are ready to sell. I shave the blanks when they are purchased only, so that they are set, this helps make a more accurate product. When I am rushed by someone the blanks are a disaster. I am a horrible business man, mostly because I have grown to not trust anyone. I just make a good product, I have also become quite crass and sometimes very mean with people as I have had lots of interesting surprises in dealing with collectors. Still my aim is to make the best blanks possible and I work at them to make them much better. I most enjoy working for artists, and the recording industry, and movies than collectors over the years. I always have enough to make to keep me always busy and behind. I do not do much mail order, because I have had to remake lots of cylinders, that were well packed mind you , that the mail had destroyed, and I do not want to share how many, but it has been alot. I rather sell to people face to face and at my home, or at the shows, when I can make them. The best place to buy blanks is at the Union Show in June. I make about 1000 blanks a year.
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In that context I can't see any insulting attitude, there is no questioning at all, that you know how to make blanks. I'd love to call myself the Kaiser of digital cylinder transfers but I am nowhere near that. Instead it's great to simply receive some acknowledging feedback from time to time for the few humble things I have been able to contribute.