The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Brandon wrote: Shane,

After further inspection, I was not able to find any patent dates or form numbers anywhere on or in the box.

Thanks for checking that for me Brandon.

52089 wrote:


I can post more info on these if anyone is interested.

I'd certainly be interested.
Interesting that there are 2 "Edison Record" labels. I've got quite a few of those & never noticed any difference, so I'll have to give them another look.
I'd imagine this list is for standard American boxes only, and does not include British series boxes, or those with paste-over patents labels?

gramophoneshane wrote:

52089 wrote:


I can post more info on these if anyone is interested.

I'd certainly be interested.
Interesting that there are 2 "Edison Record" labels. I've got quite a few of those & never noticed any difference, so I'll have to give them another look.
I'd imagine this list is for standard American boxes only, and does not include British series boxes, or those with paste-over patents labels?

I only have info and examples of US boxes.

The 2 different Edison Record boxes have last patent dates of Apr. 23, 1907 and Mar. 3, 1908. Both are labeled Form 1330.

I will start a separate thread for GM boxes and post info and photos when I have a chance.

phonogfp wrote: Below are the front and rear covers of the Columbia record list for June 1897. The Paris office is not yet listed. Is it certain that it was opened in/around March 1897?

Here is an excerpt from a letter sent from William Alexander Smith of Edison-Bell in London on April 14, 1897 after his return from Paris, where he visited a "magnificient new shop" opened on Boulevard des Italiens, selling phonographs and "any quantity" of graphophones.



I have to correct myself concerning the date of the opening of the Paris office which is, as I have now seen in my files, not identical with the opening of the shop. Frank Dorian only sailed to Paris on 14 August 1897 "to take charge of the European headquarters of the [Columbia Phonograph] company, about to be opened in that city." (The Washington Post of 16 August 1897)

Starkton wrote: I have to correct myself concerning the date of the opening of the Paris office which is, as I have now seen in my files, not identical with the opening of the shop. Frank Dorian only sailed to Paris on 14 August 1897 "to take charge of the European headquarters of the [Columbia Phonograph] company, about to be opened in that city." (The Washington Post of 16 August 1897)

That makes perfect sense. I noticed in the 1899 Annual Report that American Graphophone opened a showroom in New York in 1895, but the main office wasn't officially moved there until January 1, 1897. There's not much differentiation made between showrooms and offices in that old literature... So the Paris office was opened at about the time of the Type B's introduction. I can remember that!

Thanks for the clarification, Starkton!

George P.

I may be getting too detailed with how minute the box variations are as I continue to go through this large group. This detail may not be of any relevance but I thought I would post it just in case.

Out of the 77 cylinders in the group, 39 are in the plain boxes I mentioned earlier in this thread. While going over them in more detail, I notice there are actually 2 variations of plain boxes. The difference is how they were constructed, one having a spiral seam on the outside cardboard and the other having a vertical seam. Here is a picture with the spiral variation on the right and the vertical on the left:
I looked through every other cylinder box I have checking the seams. I didn't find any others with a vertical seam. In looking at 52089's picture again, both of those have spiral seams. Does anyone have any information on this sort of thing, or have a plain box with vertical seam for comparison?

phonogfp wrote:I noticed in the 1899 Annual Report that American Graphophone opened a showroom in New York in 1895, but the main office wasn't officially moved there until January 1, 1897.

Do you have an idea when the "inofficial" move of the main office to New York took place?

When Frank Dorian was interviewed in 1903 he mentioned that he “was appointed general manager of the [Columbia Phonograph] Company, just prior to the removal of their head office from Washington to New York in 1896."

Starkton wrote: Do you have an idea when the "inofficial" move of the main office to New York took place?

When Frank Dorian was interviewed in 1903 he mentioned that he “was appointed general manager of the [Columbia Phonograph] Company, just prior to the removal of their head office from Washington to New York in 1896."

I haven't run across an "unofficial" date, but considering the work involved in setting up the offices, showrooms, and arcade, I would expect the company took possession of the premises at least 60 days prior to the "official" opening on 1/1/1897.

George P.