The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

gramophoneshane wrote:

amrcg wrote:What about this one in Portugal:

http://www.leiloes.net/auction_details. ... t_question

That's the same machine that was on the first website you posted, that now has an electric motor.

Ooops...

amrcg wrote:What would you say about this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/phonograph-ci ... 500wt_1124

They don't ship to Portugal, anyway, but I would like to learn from you about the likely authenticity of this machine.

This HMV 103 on ebay appears to have all it's original parts, EXCEPT the top plywood board of the lid is a replacement.
The board they've replaced it with is thicker than it should be, and has very squared off edges.
You can also see in the photo with the lid up, the inside flat surface of the lid doesn't match the rest of the cabinet, but looks streaky with light and dark patches where they've attempted to make it look the same colour as the rest of the cabinet.
The original board on the top of the lid would be about half the thickness of the replacement, and the edges were slightly tapered & rounded off so there was no sharp edge along the top board, like in the picture below.

If the lid had been correct, I would have said it looked like a nice original machine.
That said, I probably wouldn't have recommended buying a 103 anyway.
The HMV 103 & 109 were basically the same machine. They used the same soundbox, tonearm & horn, so both machines sound exactly the same, BUT the 103 has a single spring motor & the 109 had a double spring motor.
I'm not saying the single spring motor is a bad motor. When they were new, and the records being played were new, the motor was quite adequate for playing one complete side of a 1920s/1930s record without slowing down.
Now however, they can sometimes be a little underpowered & dont cope as well when you play a record that is slightly worn, or if you play a record that was made in the 1940s & 1950s.
Generally speaking, a 103 will still play most records without any problems, but the 109's double spring motor has twice as much power, so you shouldn't have any trouble playing any 78rpm record made in any year, unless the record is very badly worn and is probably ready to be thrown in the rubbish bin anyway.

I know that because you live in Portugal, your choices of gramophone are very limited, but if at all possible, you should try to get a machine that has at least 2 springs, especially if some of the record you want to play were made in the 1940s or 1950s.
If you compare the top of the lid on the ebay machine below, to the lid of the 109 pictured above, you will see the lid of the 103 is not original (& a rather poor quality repair).
And this picture shows the replacement board which is the wrong colour. It also looks like they've used a cheap pine plywood instead of English oak like the rest of the cabinet.

Hey gramophoneshane, thank you for the info and pictures.

How do you compare the HMV 107 and 108 models with those? What are the main differences?

By the way, the Selecta seller has opened the case and tells me that the motor is a Garrard no. 11, which is double spring. Regarding the soundbox, it has a labels after all: Selecta Deluxe. Could it be a Thorens with the label of the contracting company?

Regarding record wear, how would you compare the HMV 103/109 tone-arms and soundbox (no. 4) with the Thorens one?

I'm starting to feel tempted again for the Selecta, since you say that the Thorens soundbox is record-friendly. As I told you I'm no collector. Just want a robust machine with acceptable sound, as record-friendly as possible.

António