The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Steve wrote:Starkton, can you throw any light on the use of the black/gilt back-bracket? Is that correct or should it be back on a Victor machine? I can't recall ever seeing a black enamelled back-bracket on an HMV horn machine.

The black back-bracket matches for a French "No. 9" gramophone ("Cockle Shell Monarch" in the UK), just as a nickeled copper horn.

So we all agree it isn't mahogany but definitely maybe walnut.........or teak maybe? (just let me believe it if you will!)

It is in poor original condition and shows evidence of gross over-restoration at the hands of a nickel plating expert! Is that the long and short of it?

Oh, I forgot: it's also priced high to start.

I would still like to hear opinions on the other machine mentioned here.

The black back-bracket matches for a French "No. 9" gramophone ("Cockle Shell Monarch" in the UK), just as a nickeled copper horn.

Thanks, Starkton. So you appear to be stating that the machine on Ebay is correct to have that nickeled horn and black/gilt back-bracket. Even if the plating was redone it was still an 'authentic' restoration and the machine is technically all there and correct?

Steve wrote: Even if the plating was redone it was still an 'authentic' restoration and the machine is technically all there and correct?

Yes, I would say so. But keeping in mind the price level and the fact that both machines from the collection look unbalanced I wouldn't bid on it.

Gentlemen!
The main reason to post my original question was exactly to have a discussion like this.
I learned a lot reading all the responses. Some of this would be hard to find in available books.
I just love picking knowledgeable peoples brain.
Thanks!

I'm pretty sure I've posted this before but I can't resist including it here since it's appropriate to the discussion, as well as one of my favorite machines. However I haven't had the pleasure of having it in my home for 9 months -- it's been on loan to the San Francisco Airport Museums. It's scheduled to come home to me tomorrow, along with a few other phonographs and records I loaned them. I'm eager to get it back.

This one is a good example of mahogany. There's no questioning this wood............ The copper horn has been polished and lacquered but the machine is otherwise all original.

Rene, if you have it back, can you please make some detailed images of the case, including the unpolished underside. I would like to know which type of mahagony was used.

Going back to the original question, it appears that there will be a group of machines being sold shortly that are all from the same source. Given that it has been established by some very knowledgable people on here that BOTH current machines being offered for sale have had some restoration done to them, some of it a little poor in quality, it will inevitably cast a long shadow over the other items being offered in the near future. As I see it, if a previous collector was hell bent of restoring everything, why should anything from his / her collection be any different?

Rene's machine doesn't deserve to be shown or discussed in the same thread as the Ebay machine! It's altogether too fine and genuine and original.

It's a machine rather typical of Phonogalerie in fact!

A bit curious about the wood worm issue. We don't see that often in the States, at least I haven't. Do run into the occasional termite damage, as I did recently with a Credenza.

Be that as it may, is this just an aesthetic issue for some? The small holes don’t appear, at least on the surface, to have affected structural integrity. Or for those of you who are familiar with such an issue, are the suface holes often a sign of far worse underneath?

I would think that the infestation, if still active, could be safely addressed with a bit of fumigation. The small holes to me are just part of its history and give it a bit of character (assuming there is not major hidden damage).

Clay