The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I noticed a couple of my videos have been marked (Sony).
1) what is the public domain cut off year for the music us 78 collectors like to post on utube?
2) when clicking in the manage videos link, there is a set of selections to choose for disputing the claim. Which one to select?
3) is there a simple way to avoid claims in the first place when uploading videos?
4) if you do nothing, what happens?
5) if you dispute the claim does this actually cause your video to show up on the radar and most certainly become blocked or deleted?

The videos still play just fine.

Retrograde wrote:I noticed a couple of my videos have been marked (Sony).
1) what is the public domain cut off year for the music us 78 collectors like to post on utube?
2) when clicking in the manage videos link, there is a set of selections to choose for disputing the claim. Which one to select?
3) is there a simple way to avoid claims in the first place when uploading videos?
4) if you do nothing, what happens?
5) if you dispute the claim does this actually cause your video to show up on the radar and most certainly become blocked or deleted?

The videos still play just fine.

1) In the US, techncially there isn't one. The 1923 date that is usually quoted for public domain does not apply to sound recordings because they were not covered by Federal Copyright statutes until 1972. (Prior to that they were covered by state and local laws that usually had no expiration date.) Recordings made prior to 1972 are probably still technically not in public domain, though in many cases, ownership would be difficult to establish due to bankruptcies, mergers, etc. The one major group of recordings that are unquestionably PD in the USA are the Edison rcordings, which became PD as soon as the US Government acquired them from McGraw Hill.

And yes, that means that all those old Victors are technically still subject to copyright - in the US.

Outside the US, laws are completely different. For example, in the USA, Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue is still subject to Copyright, but in Canada and Europe (and indeed most of the world) it is now public domain. Elvis Presley's pre-1962 records are now public domain in Europe, but their US copyrights are still valid. This is a major thorn in Youtube's side. Just imagine the thousands and thousands of popular records in similar situations.

3) No, there is no simple way to prevent this - other than sticking to Edison recordings only!

Edison recordings are not public domain either, The Charles Edison Fund claims license of them, I know because they sent me letter and even called me and talked to me on the phone, they charge a license fee for the signature or anything Edison, they also told me to pass it on. This is the reason why I changed the name to Borri Audio Laboratories. SOPA has something to do with this too. In some ways it is crazy because it makes sharing historical recording difficult.

edisonphonoworks wrote:Edison recordings are not public domain either, The Charles Edison Fund claims license of them, I know because they sent me letter and even called me and talked to me on the phone, they charge a license fee for the signature or anything Edison, they also told me to pass it on. This is the reason why I changed the name to Borri Audio Laboratories. SOPA has something to do with this too. In some ways it is crazy because it makes sharing historical recording difficult.

They will do this because their lawyers can beat up your lawyers. All "works" of the US government, with very few exceptions (e.g. classified documents among others) are automatically public domain under US law. The US government owns the Edison masters, therefore they are PD.

Again, not a lawyer here...

52089 wrote:

edisonphonoworks wrote:Edison recordings are not public domain either, The Charles Edison Fund claims license of them, I know because they sent me letter and even called me and talked to me on the phone, they charge a license fee for the signature or anything Edison, they also told me to pass it on. This is the reason why I changed the name to Borri Audio Laboratories. SOPA has something to do with this too. In some ways it is crazy because it makes sharing historical recording difficult.

They will do this because their lawyers can beat up your lawyers. All "works" of the US government, with very few exceptions (e.g. classified documents among others) are automatically public domain under US law. The US government owns the Edison masters, therefore they are PD.

Again, not a lawyer here...

So yet all of the below, (and many more I have uploaded)are from Edison masters obviously but still dozens of third party claims...

Recorded, - Blue Amberol no., - Title, - No of claims, - no released,

1909 --- ---- 4046 ---- ----Semper Fidelis ---- 6 --- 2
1912 --- ---- 28100 ---- ----Barcarolle ---- 3 --- 1
1909 --- ---- 2029 --------Nat'l Emblem March ----3 --- 1
1912 --- ---- 2439 ---- ----La Marseillaise ---- 6 --- 2
1913 --- ---- 28174 --------Pagliacci Prologue ----4 --- 0

Well until youtube clean up their act (I wont hold my breath here given their track record) then I will stick to posting music via a dirct MP3 link to my Box account. The copyfraudsters can look somewhere else for their easy money.

Valecnik wrote:So yet all of the below, (and many more I have uploaded)are from Edison masters obviously but still dozens of third party claims...

Recorded, - Blue Amberol no., - Title, - No of claims, - no released,

1909 --- ---- 4046 ---- ----Semper Fidelis ---- 6 --- 2
1912 --- ---- 28100 ---- ----Barcarolle ---- 3 --- 1
1909 --- ---- 2029 --------Nat'l Emblem March ----3 --- 1
1912 --- ---- 2439 ---- ----La Marseillaise ---- 6 --- 2
1913 --- ---- 28174 --------Pagliacci Prologue ----4 --- 0

Out of curiousity, do these claims indicate whether they are claiming copyright on the composition or the recording, or is that not noted in the claim?

Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_dom ... recordings. While the usual Wikipedia caveats apply, it seems pretty consistent with such other limited web research as I've done.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... ension_Act

So what recordings are in the public domain? Not many.

"We have the best Congress money can buy."--Will Rogers

Clay

52089 wrote:

Valecnik wrote:So yet all of the below, (and many more I have uploaded)are from Edison masters obviously but still dozens of third party claims...

Recorded, - Blue Amberol no., - Title, - No of claims, - no released,

1909 --- ---- 4046 ---- ----Semper Fidelis ---- 6 --- 2
1912 --- ---- 28100 ---- ----Barcarolle ---- 3 --- 1
1909 --- ---- 2029 --------Nat'l Emblem March ----3 --- 1
1912 --- ---- 2439 ---- ----La Marseillaise ---- 6 --- 2
1913 --- ---- 28174 --------Pagliacci Prologue ----4 --- 0

Out of curiousity, do these claims indicate whether they are claiming copyright on the composition or the recording, or is that not noted in the claim?

First the status shows up as "matched third party content" and when you click on that link it tells you that a third party is asserting copyright. It really does not specify. It gives you the option to dispute and state your reasons, which I always do. Then the status switched from "matched content" to disputed third party claim. Some of them, probably the most frivolous, release within minutes, others give you a date a month in the future by which you will hear something.

The frustrating thing is that even if you clear up and get releases on 4 or 5 claims, there's no guarantee that yet another claim by another party won't show up shortly thereafter.

How can SIX third parties all assert thier rights to an Edison recording of La Marseillaise from 1912???


Note too that the recordings are located in Europe, uploaded from Europe and owned by a European resident.

Valecnik wrote:How can SIX third parties all assert thier rights to an Edison recording of La Marseillaise from 1912???

As humorist Dave Barry put it so well when writing about a famous American song:

This land is your land,
This land is my land,
One of us clearly has a fake deed to this land...