The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

BwanaJoe wrote:I found this one in Raleigh. The taf says C19 but it is the 250 cabinet. It is listed as a 250 as well.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/atq/5140130139.html

I believe the early C-19s still had drawers, if that is what you are referring to.

Bill

Lucius1958 wrote:

BwanaJoe wrote:I found this one in Raleigh. The taf says C19 but it is the 250 cabinet. It is listed as a 250 as well.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/atq/5140130139.html

I believe the early C-19s still had drawers, if that is what you are referring to.

Bill

Nope more that he says 250 but the plate says 19. Makes me wonder about what the medallion says. Plus if the SN fits with the transition period.

Lucius1958 wrote:

BwanaJoe wrote:I found this one in Raleigh. The taf says C19 but it is the 250 cabinet. It is listed as a 250 as well.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/atq/5140130139.html

I believe the early C-19s still had drawers, if that is what you are referring to.

Bill

You're correct Bill. Both the C250 and the C19 were produced with drawers.

The Model C250 was produced with a 2 drawer 5-compartment record storage system ONLY.

The C19 was produced with 2 different 2-drawer systems early on, and then at some point, only with the familiar "vertical slots" that are so easily recognized.

I recorded this C19 some weeks ago, and had been in touch with the seller at that time, explaining to them that it is INDEED a C19; not a C250 -- as is obvious from examining the dataplate, and other features. This Chippendale appears to be historically correct and in original condition as stated by the seller, IIRC.

I don't want to discuss the price, etc. of this here, please, that topic belongs in the TMF Town Square Forums

Best,
Fran

fran604g wrote: I recorded this C19 some weeks ago, and had been in touch with the seller at that time, explaining to them that it is INDEED a C19; not a C250 -- as is obvious from examining the dataplate, and other features.

I believe Joe touched on the source of the seller's confusion - - the medallion - - which on a C-19 will refer to the "250 Model..." Fran knows more about all the medallion variations than anyone else, so he can probably cite the exact wording of the one in question even though it's not pictured.

George P.

BwanaJoe wrote:

Lucius1958 wrote:

BwanaJoe wrote:I found this one in Raleigh. The taf says C19 but it is the 250 cabinet. It is listed as a 250 as well.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/atq/5140130139.html

I believe the early C-19s still had drawers, if that is what you are referring to.

Bill

Nope more that he says 250 but the plate says 19. Makes me wonder about what the medallion says. Plus if the SN fits with the transition period.

Joe, I think there is some confusion with the way that the seller describes this C19. The seller notes: "This is the 250 Diamond Disc Laboratory Model."

They are correct in stating that because of the particular medallion that would be present with this machine.

Early C19's still had The Model 250 Diamond Disc Phonograph is the Official Laboratory Model Thos A Edison type medallion affixed to the turntable trim piece (likely to use up inventory from the previously designated model C250), eventually this version of the OLM disappeared as the next type of medallion Diamond Disc Official Laboratory Model Thos A Edison replaced the earlier type found on some particular early C19's; such as this one.

Best,
Fran

phonogfp wrote:

fran604g wrote: I recorded this C19 some weeks ago, and had been in touch with the seller at that time, explaining to them that it is INDEED a C19; not a C250 -- as is obvious from examining the dataplate, and other features.

I believe Joe touched on the source of the seller's confusion - - the medallion - - which on a C-19 will refer to the "250 Model..." Fran knows more about all the medallion variations than anyone else, so he can probably cite the exact wording of the one in question even though it's not pictured.

George P.

George, we're on the exact same page.

I was in the process of posting my explanation.

Best,
Fran

Here is the info on my new C-19. I'm thrilled to finally own one!

1. Model Designation: (C-250 or C-19): C-19

2. Serial Number: SM-129003

3. Bedplate Pinstriping: Y/N: No

4. "Official Laboratory" Medallion: Round/Pentagonal/None: None (missing)

5. Exact Wording of the Medallion: Please be precise (Abbreviated signature, for example) N/A

6. Record Storage: Drawers or Shelves? Shelves

7. Cabinet Wood Type: Mahogany or Oak? Mahogany

8. Duncan Stop?: Y/N: No

9. Dealer Tag: Name/Address, Location On Machine: N/A

10. Original Dated Sales Receipt/Shipping Documentation, etc.: (Dates are particularly noteworthy): N/A

11. Grille cloth? Color? Non original

For those with C-19's, please supplement the above information to include the following addendums to the list of criteria that I've asked for previously:

12) Is the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the turntable gold plated or gun-metal?: Gold plated

13) Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center shelf or the bottom of the cabinet?: Center

14) Are the numbered strips for the record storage 1-36 on both strips or 1-36 on the top strip and 37-72 on the bottom strip? Strips are missing

15) Does the governor have 2 springs or 3 springs?: 2 springs

NateO wrote:Here is the info on my new C-19. I'm thrilled to finally own one!

1. Model Designation: (C-250 or C-19): C-19

2. Serial Number: SM-129003

3. Bedplate Pinstriping: Y/N: No

4. "Official Laboratory" Medallion: Round/Pentagonal/None: None (missing)

5. Exact Wording of the Medallion: Please be precise (Abbreviated signature, for example) N/A

6. Record Storage: Drawers or Shelves? Shelves

7. Cabinet Wood Type: Mahogany or Oak? Mahogany

8. Duncan Stop?: Y/N: No

9. Dealer Tag: Name/Address, Location On Machine: N/A

10. Original Dated Sales Receipt/Shipping Documentation, etc.: (Dates are particularly noteworthy): N/A

11. Grille cloth? Color? Non original

For those with C-19's, please supplement the above information to include the following addendums to the list of criteria that I've asked for previously:

12) Is the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the turntable gold plated or gun-metal?: Gold plated

13) Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center shelf or the bottom of the cabinet?: Center

14) Are the numbered strips for the record storage 1-36 on both strips or 1-36 on the top strip and 37-72 on the bottom strip? Strips are missing

15) Does the governor have 2 springs or 3 springs?: 2 springs

Thank you Nathan, I hope you enjoy your new Chippendale, and I appreciate your contribution to the project!

Best,
Fran

This post is a slightly modified version of my original survey for members that may not have participated in my project.

Admittedly -- over time -- I have found the need to increase and refine the scope of my original study to include a few more features to my questionnaire; any members that have already provided me with their information may provide additional pertinent observations if they wish.

As always, your participation is greatly appreciated and will ultimately provide the collecting community with valuable information. Look for PART I of my 4 part series appearing in the December 2015 issue of The Antique Phonograph.

It is my intention to compile data to establish as closely as I can when significant production changes were made to the C 250 and C 19 Diamond Disc Phonographs over their lifetimes. Once compiled, I hope to be able to demonstrate a chronological history of these changes and identify when those changes may have been implemented by Thomas A. Edison Inc.

I routinely do searches on eBAY, and Craigslist; Chippendales you may find on those sites are not necessary to list here, and please do not post links to machines, thank you.

The following are particular features that I am observing, please number your responses appropriately:

1. What is the Model Designation? C 250 or C 19

2. What is the Serial Number? SM-??????

3. Is there pin striping on the motor plate? Yes/No

4. What is the "Official Laboratory" Medallion shape? Round or Pentagonal

5. What is the exact wording on the Medallion? Please be accurate (with abbreviated signature, for example)

6. What form of record storage is present:
6A) 2 Drawers divided with 5-compartments
6B) 2 Drawers divided by individual record "slots" numbered 1-38.
6C) 2 Shelves divided by individual record "slots"; Are the corresponding numbered strips for the shelves: 1-36 on both strips OR are they numbered 1-36 on the top strip and 37-72 on the bottom strip?

7. Cabinet Wood Type: Mahogany or Oak

8. Is an "Electric Automatic Stop" (AKA Duncan Stop) present on the motor plate?: Yes/No

9. Please list any dealer tags or decals present: Name/Address, location on machine, etc.

10. Is there any original dated sales receipts/shipping documentation, etc.: (Dates are particularly noteworthy)

11. Is there Grille cloth present? What is the Color?

12. Is the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the turntable gold plated or gun-metal (AKA antique bronze)?

13. Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center, or the bottom of the cabinet door?

14. Does the governor (located beneath the turntable) have 2 springs or 3 springs?

15. Does the top of the motor plate have a continuous FLAT surface, or is there a large concentric CIRCULAR depression (that is obscured by the turntable) present? Please state FLAT or CIRCULAR.

As I near completion of my research, I'd like to thank you for your time and effort in providing me (and by extension, the entire collecting community) with your Chippendale information.

I urge you -- as a contributor to this project -- if you wish to be acknowledged in the final article(s), please provide me with your first and last names in your reply, or you may PM me here, or email me at FPratt1426 (at) gmail (dot) com.

Your participation and comments are truly appreciated.

Thank you all,
Fran

Here is the info for the oak C-19:
1) C-19
2) SM--89622
3) No
4) Round
5) The Model 250
Diamond Disc
Phonograph is the
Official Laboratory
Model
Thos. A Edison
6) 6C-numbers missing
7) Oak
8) No
9) None
10) None
11) None
12) Gold plated
13) Center
14) 2 springs
15) Circular

Cliff