The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

CDBPDX wrote:Here is the info for the oak C-19:Cliff

Thank you very much Cliff!

Happy Holidays,
Fran

This post is a slightly modified version of my original survey for members that may not have participated in my project.

Admittedly -- over time -- I have found the need to increase and refine the scope of my original study to include a few more features to my questionnaire; any members that have already provided me with their information may provide additional pertinent observations if they wish.

As always, your participation is greatly appreciated and will ultimately provide the collecting community with valuable information. Look for PART I of my 4 part series appearing in the December 2015 issue of The Antique Phonograph.

It is my intention to compile data to establish as closely as I can when significant production changes were made to the C 250 and C 19 Diamond Disc Phonographs over their lifetimes. Once compiled, I hope to be able to demonstrate a chronological history of these changes and identify when those changes may have been implemented by Thomas A. Edison Inc.

I routinely do searches on eBAY, and Craigslist; Chippendales you may find on those sites are not necessary to list here, and please do not post links to machines, thank you.

The following are particular features that I am observing, please number your responses appropriately:

1. What is the Model Designation? C 250 or C 19

2. What is the Serial Number? SM-??????

3. Is there pin striping on the motor plate? Yes/No

4. What is the "Official Laboratory" Medallion shape? Round or Pentagonal

5. What is the exact wording on the Medallion? Please be accurate (with abbreviated signature, for example)

6. What form of record storage is present:
6A) 2 Drawers divided with 5-compartments
6B) 2 Drawers divided by individual record "slots" numbered 1-38.
6C) 2 Shelves divided by individual record "slots"; Are the corresponding numbered strips for the shelves: 1-36 on both strips OR are they numbered 1-36 on the top strip and 37-72 on the bottom strip?

7. Cabinet Wood Type: Mahogany or Oak

8. Is an "Electric Automatic Stop" (AKA Duncan Stop) present on the motor plate?: Yes/No

9. Please list any dealer tags or decals present: Name/Address, location on machine, etc.

10. Is there any original dated sales receipts/shipping documentation, etc.: (Dates are particularly noteworthy)

11. Is there Grille cloth present? What is the Color?

12. Is the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the turntable gold plated or gun-metal (AKA "antique bronze")?

13. Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center, or the bottom of the cabinet door?

14. Does the governor (located beneath the turntable) have 2 springs or 3 springs?

15. Does the top of the motor plate have a continuous FLAT surface, or is there a large concentric CIRCULAR depression (that is obscured by the turntable) present? Please state FLAT or CIRCULAR.

As I near completion of my research, I'd like to thank you for your time and effort in providing me (and by extension, the entire collecting community) with your Chippendale information.

I urge you -- as a contributor to this project -- if you wish to be acknowledged in the final article(s), please provide me with your first and last names in your reply, or you may PM me here, or email me at FPratt1426 (at) gmail (dot) com.

Your participation and comments are truly appreciated.

Thank you all,
Fran

fran604g wrote:This post is a slightly modified version of my original survey for members that may not have participated in my project.

Admittedly -- over time -- I have found the need to increase and refine the scope of my original study to include a few more features to my questionnaire; any members that have already provided me with their information may provide additional pertinent observations if they wish.

As always, your participation is greatly appreciated and will ultimately provide the collecting community with valuable information. Look for PART I of my 4 part series appearing in the December 2015 issue of The Antique Phonograph.

It is my intention to compile data to establish as closely as I can when significant production changes were made to the C 250 and C 19 Diamond Disc Phonographs over their lifetimes. Once compiled, I hope to be able to demonstrate a chronological history of these changes and identify when those changes may have been implemented by Thomas A. Edison Inc.

I routinely do searches on eBAY, and Craigslist; Chippendales you may find on those sites are not necessary to list here, and please do not post links to machines, thank you.

The following are particular features that I am observing, please number your responses appropriately:

1. What is the Model Designation? C 250 or C 19

2. What is the Serial Number? SM-??????

3. Is there pin striping on the motor plate? Yes/No

4. What is the "Official Laboratory" Medallion shape? Round or Pentagonal

5. What is the exact wording on the Medallion? Please be accurate (with abbreviated signature, for example)

6. What form of record storage is present:
6A) 2 Drawers divided with 5-compartments
6B) 2 Drawers divided by individual record "slots" numbered 1-38.
6C) 2 Shelves divided by individual record "slots"; Are the corresponding numbered strips for the shelves: 1-36 on both strips OR are they numbered 1-36 on the top strip and 37-72 on the bottom strip?

7. Cabinet Wood Type: Mahogany or Oak

8. Is an "Electric Automatic Stop" (AKA Duncan Stop) present on the motor plate?: Yes/No

9. Please list any dealer tags or decals present: Name/Address, location on machine, etc.

10. Is there any original dated sales receipts/shipping documentation, etc.: (Dates are particularly noteworthy)

11. Is there Grille cloth present? What is the Color?

12. Is the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the turntable gold plated or gun-metal (AKA "antique bronze")?

13. Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center, or the bottom of the cabinet door?

14. Does the governor (located beneath the turntable) have 2 springs or 3 springs?

15. Does the top of the motor plate have a continuous FLAT surface, or is there a large concentric CIRCULAR depression (that is obscured by the turntable) present? Please state FLAT or CIRCULAR.

As I near completion of my research, I'd like to thank you for your time and effort in providing me (and by extension, the entire collecting community) with your Chippendale information.

I urge you -- as a contributor to this project -- if you wish to be acknowledged in the final article(s), please provide me with your first and last names in your reply, or you may PM me here, or email me at FPratt1426 (at) gmail (dot) com.

Your participation and comments are truly appreciated.

Thank you all,
Fran

To add a detail to my original response:

6. (a)

Bill

Thank you, Bill. I'll update your entry.

The oak C250 with serial no. 36097 now belongs to "mattrx"!

Oceangoer1 wrote:The oak C250 with serial no. 36097 now belongs to "mattrx"!

Thank you Connor, I've updated the entry.

Best,
Fran

Just found this machine yesterday. Below are answers to the survey questions with a few additional observations at the end.

1. C250

2. s/n 63734

3. No

4. Round

5. 'The Model 250 Diamond Disc Phonograph Is The Official Laboratory Model/Thos A Edison'

6. 6A

7. Oak (Golden)

8. No

9. None

10. No

11. No

12. Gold

13. Bottom

14. 2

15. Circular

Additional notes: Black & silver script-style data plate. Green turntable felt. Original grill cloth not present and no evidence of original cloth present. This machine as found was fitted with a 'New Standard' reproducer (P24477NS) and no mute ball assembly. There are no mounting holes present for the mute ball slider assembly and no chipped paint or bolt mars on the horn post where the mute ball bracket may have been mounted.

So, a couple of questions . . . were these ever sent out from the factory without a mute ball assembly? And, how high is this serial number relative to others in your database? I only saw one other posted that was higher at s/n 72528. Thanks, Fran!

Hi John, thanks for the addition!

I can't think of any reason why there wouldn't be a mute ball with the machine, I'm fairly certain that all Type B motor plates would've been drilled and tapped for the slider as a typical procedure during production of the Type B mechanism.

As far as I know, all Chippendales were equipped with the mute ball and slider control.

I checked all 11 Type B examples I have here, from my earliest C 250 #6947 through to my latest Schubert #3020 (including my pre-1919 A 100, and B 19 #8923), and all are drilled and tapped for the slider, despite both of my Schubert's and the Chalet having never been fitted with mute ball assemblies.

This serial number falls into the range of units near the discontinuation of the Electric Automatic Stop, and I would've expected this to have it installed.

Does the horn have a conduit on the inside of the top of horn throat for a wire to be run through to the rear of the reproducer?

Interesting...

Fran

Oh, and one more thing, I forgot to mention: the units I have here includes C 250 #23481, C 19 #75339, and a very late C 19 #172,249.

The highest C 19 I have recorded is #187,153.

Fran

Hello fran604g:
Eventually are you going to post your spreadsheet for these machines so we all who submitted data for our machines can have reference to it?
Thanks
John