Continuing Pathé investigations: record wear

[emgcr]

One factor nobody has mentioned is that it might be a good idea to actually check the tracking compliance of individual machines. This is quite easily done with a cheap home-made tracking gauge made from paper.

[pughphonos]

Hi Emger,

Great idea! Can you describe how to make one of those? I'll gladly then run a test on my Pathé Actuelle cone machine.

Ralph

[emgcr]

I think I am right in saying that the subject of tracking was not universally understood until people like Wilson and Webb published the geometrical imperatives in the mid nineteen twenties. For those who have it, reference to their definitive book "Modern Gramophones and Elecrical Reproducers" first published in 1929, explains things in detail and the alignment protractor/gauge is shown on page 132---a photo is attached.

Two pieces of paper/card are all that is required and they are joined by a rivet. If the latter is not easily available, then a cork and drawing pin will suffice. The motor spindle nestles at the position where A & Y meet, thus the distance AY equates to the spindle radius. The needle point is placed in the crook of the swinging cursor and readings are taken at any selected positions across the record with one's head vertically over the reproducer/soundbox. The close-drawn parallel lines on the cursor should lie in the same plane as that of the reproducer/soundbox diaphragm.

It is worth noting that, to my knowledge, there is only one design of phonograph/gramophone which will guarantee to produce perfect tracking across every part of the record and this is the "Balmain" where the reproducer is directly attached to the horn and the whole combination is then allowed to float in a straight line along a bed of mercury as the record grooves dictate---highly efficient but not too practicable these days ! All other systems which involve a reproducer attached to a swinging tonearm are compromised as far as tracking is concerned. The trick is to minimise the error which, ideally, should be a degree or two either side of zero. With a reputable machine, it is normally possible to achieve two tangents (zero error---perfect tracking) when traversing the whole playing length of a record. Other readings will show small deviations from perfection which should not be significant in terms of record wear.

Of course, many/most machines have fixed reproducer positions so that a variation of tracking geometry is not easily achieved---a good thing if all is well but a difficulty if not. Some reproducers have the facility to be adjusted (rubber mounted without a bayonet etc) so that changes can be made and benefits derived. It is particularly in the case of these machines where the advantage of a tracking gauge is self evident.

[Edisone]

I must say that I've never had a skidding issue with Pathés on Pathé, Edison, Brunswick, or Sonora machines. However, I do have adapters for Victor machines which won't play a Pathé no matter what I try.

[Edisone]

Not sure how the "long link" could touch the inside of the tube unless it has bent at an angle. It literally maintains it's rigidity under the tension between the spring-loaded needle chuck assembly and the conical metal plate at the apex of the diffusor. The slightest dent will cause it to bend at that point. At that point, record wear would probably be caused by the loss of equilibrium the tube afforded the needle chuck against the spring-tension.

"bent at an angle"? Aren't ALL bends "at an angle"? My original Pathé instruction manuals stress the importance of looking inside the tube to be sure the link is not touching anything.

The "long link" does NOT "literally" maintain rigidity under tension - the link is rigid because of its construction. There should be NO TENSION WHATSOEVER in the whole assembly; the link MUST join the cone perfectly, without ANY tension before the two are attached. There is no "loss of equilibrium", either - inanimate objects can have no such thing. What you are failing to describe is this: that the link must not touch the tube, must be centered, and can neither push nor pull on the paper cone.

[JohnM]

Sorry about my semantics. "Bent at an angle". "All bends are at an angle"? Yes, that is my point. It is bent at an angle. Redundant? Perhaps. So let's just say "bent". The "long link" IS under compression between the spring-loaded needle chuck and the diffusor. If the tube touches the wall of the tube, then it must have bent (at whatever angle) enough to touch the inside wall of the tube. If the tube is deformed enough to do that, then the spring tension on the needle chuck will cause the chuck to move in the direction that the springs are pushing upon it, since there is no longer a properly performing tube of sufficient length offering enough resistance to prevent this from happening -- a loss of equilibrium. Something is not inanimate when there is a force (such as the chuck springs) acting upon it and the needle while playing a record is moving it back and forth. We are discussing record wear which would imply that something is moving, Records don't wear when they aren't being played. I am agreeing with you in principle that a damaged "long link" will lead to record wear, but only saying that the wear is going to be caused by more than just the "long link" rubbing on the inside of the arm tube.

Have you ever taken one of these apart? If not, I hope some day you have the opportunity. It is rather tricky to hold the "long link" in place without crushing/pinching/denting it. If one does, the thin-walled, hollow "long link" will collapse ("bend at an angle") as soon as there is any force put upon it by the chuck.

As far as the instruction book, is this inspection something the Pathé owner is supposed to do on a regular basis, or only after transport? What is the context? I just moved two Actuelles 1800 miles across the country and both arrived in playing condition.

[CarlosV]

Edison people will tell you that Edison produced some of the best AND worst phonographs and records of the 1890-1929 period. It wouldn't hurt the Pathé enthusiasts to admit the same about the Pathé models. It's called being realistic.

Contrary to Edison, Pathé suffers from a dearth of information. To my knowledge there is no book on Pathé products, and I have never seen any systematic research on their production. This forces collectors like me to rely on empirical evidence or similar subjective and non-scientific sources. That said, there is a large variation in the performance of the Pathé machines. The worst concerning wear to the discs is one variation of the European cousin to the Actuelle, the Pathé Diffusor. There are several versions of the Diffusor, which uses a paper cone with the needle at the tip of the cone. The cone is lightweight (paper on aluminum frame), but it is quite large and creates a lot of drag. On top of that, Pathé produced several different types of fixation for this cone, and one in particular, with a rod along the back of the turntable that holds the cone and allows it to travel tangentially to the disc (and theoretically with perfect tracking) is the one that creates the largest amount of drag, evidenced by the slowing of the spin speed if the record has some wear. Such drag certainly produces wear to the discs. Other types of Pathé machines are much gentler to the disc, one of the reasons being the lightweight soundbox (made initially of bakelite and later of aluminum) and the compliance provided by the rubber connection in the design of its soundboxes.

[pughphonos]

Carlos V, now we're getting somewhere! What you've just offered speaks to the different reasons why some Pathé phonographs produce notable record wear while others apparently do not. The paper cone models, either side of the Atlantic, are prime culprits on wear. Wear (over and above "normal") is produced by bad tracking angle, weight, and a stiffness in gaskets that transits too much signal back towards the record surface and not away from it.

Emger, it's taken me a few days, but I've just inspected my Pathé Actuelle and find that the stylus rides on the record surface at almost a 45-degree angle. Probably not a good thing, but this does appear to be how the manufacturer intended. The only way to correct this is to add some extra washers underneath the paper cone mount/pivot so as to elevate it (and thereby INCREASE the angle at which the tone arm approaches the record surface so that the angle of the stylus contact is DECREASED--as the needle chuck itself adds the 45 degrees).

Carlos V, you are right on: yes, there is a horrible dearth of Pathé secondary sources out there. Copeland & Dethlefson have produced a spiral-bound book (self-published?) on the U.S Pathé operations, 1914-1922, which is to be PRAISED as it shows a commitment to an otherwise deserted field of study. It does rely heavily on reproduced Pathé promotional literature of the period, and that literature must of course be taken with a large "grain of salt." I find that their literature often alleges that ALL Pathé machines produce no undue record wear "if in proper alignment." Well, that's obviously a weasel phrase as it throws upon the operator all responsibility for wear once the phonograph leaves the dealer's showroom (truth be told). Let's not be masochists and beat ourselves for all the Pathé record wear when clearly SOME of the responsibility (through the paper cone models, at least) rests with Pathé itself.

Several Pathé enthusiasts who contributed earlier to this thread have since taken their sapphire balls and gone to play elsewhere. Come on back, guys; the water's fine. Let's all try to distinguish WHICH Pathé machines cause excess wear, and why. Carlos V and Emger, thanks so much.

Ralph

[pughphonos]

Oh, BTW, over the past few days I have begun assembling the modifications to my Victor 4-4 Granada so that it can play Pathé discs as per Paul Dodington's essay (see link below). I'm waiting on a specialty order (a Pathé sapphire mounted to a slightly-longer than usual shank) before I complete my version of his application.

http://www.capsnews.org/apn2011-3.htm

[wjw]

I'vw been reading this thread with much interest. I bought an Actuelle machine recently just to delve into Pathé vertical records. Sapphire stylus didn't come with it, so I played a couple of American Pathé vertical- cut records with a thorn (cactus) needle and they played right through just as they do with a Victrola. It's an option- enjoy the vintage technology without the record wear.