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Valecnik wrote:Frankia, regarding your dissatisfaction with your listening room, it looks pretty good to me. From what I can tell in the videos it looks like the machines are placed more or less in corners of a smaller to medium sized room. I would think that's almost ideal.

possibly for the expert but i do beleive that emg oversize machines are made to fill large hall's and spaces, so who knows, that may sound outstanding in a larger area!

kirtley2012 wrote:

Valecnik wrote:Frankia, regarding your dissatisfaction with your listening room, it looks pretty good to me. From what I can tell in the videos it looks like the machines are placed more or less in corners of a smaller to medium sized room. I would think that's almost ideal.

possibly for the expert but i do beleive that emg oversize machines are made to fill large hall's and spaces, so who knows, that may sound outstanding in a larger area!

That could be the problem Kirtley. Perhaps for that particular machine a bigger space would be better.

I have heard that advice, but for me, putting your head at the mouth of any EMG or Expert is just wonderful (if you can stand the volume). In that position, the room matters far less (and I have tried this in small rooms, large rooms, and outside).

People talk of a holographic sound if you are further back in a good sized room (especially with the larger machines), but listening at the horn mouth you have an all-enveloping sound. Try it. I suppose you could use ear plugs if you really must, but I have never felt the need. It is not that loud.

Larger rooms can hide faults though, especially if you sit further back.

No criticism construed! After all, most of this whole thing boils down to personal preference in the end. I don't myself see either EMG, Expert or indeed HMV as being superior or inferior to each other. If I did I wouldn't have this room full of gramophones and my pockets empty! I like to see it as a matter of happy enjoyment and personal preference and enrichment.

However - both EMGs have mechanical motors (Garrard Super and Collaro D30) whereas the Expert has an electric one.

The two windup motors are great, the Super probably the best ever made but you really need an electric motor in all of them to compare them.
The same motor and the same soundbox would be interesting.

By the way, that thick platter on the Expert, what is it exactly. To me it looks like one of those lightweight bulky alloy turntables from the 70's and 80's.

And as for Bowlly. There are a few videos on my Youtube channel. He'd have been 115 earlier this month, 7th .
http://youtu.be/MCGqHaEEvWg

chunnybh wrote:

No criticism construed! After all, most of this whole thing boils down to personal preference in the end. I don't myself see either EMG, Expert or indeed HMV as being superior or inferior to each other. If I did I wouldn't have this room full of gramophones and my pockets empty! I like to see it as a matter of happy enjoyment and personal preference and enrichment.

However - both EMGs have mechanical motors (Garrard Super and Collaro D30) whereas the Expert has an electric one.

The two windup motors are great, the Super probably the best ever made but you really need an electric motor in all of them to compare them.
The same motor and the same soundbox would be interesting.

By the way, that thick platter on the Expert, what is it exactly. To me it looks like one of those lightweight bulky alloy turntables from the 70's and 80's.

And as for Bowlly. There are a few videos on my Youtube channel. He'd have been 115 earlier this month, 7th .
http://youtu.be/MCGqHaEEvWg

Wow I have a couple of Claarvox reproducers, essentially the same as a Visconia but I never thought of the possibility of playing a Diamond Disc on such a machine. Sounds pretty good in the video but how does it compare "in the room". Also has your Visconia been rebuilt, new gaskets, stylus and diaphragm good?

Valecnik wrote:Frankia, regarding your dissatisfaction with your listening room, it looks pretty good to me. From what I can tell in the videos it looks like the machines are placed more or less in corners of a smaller to medium sized room. I would think that's almost ideal.

It would also be nice to hear a comparison of those machines playing some nice 1928, 29, 30 dance or Jazz, Whiteman or Al Bowley if you happen to have any.

I just realised that I had recorded the following jazz 78 from both machines last September. The links are below.

While I agree with Alex that the Oversize horn was meant for larger spaces, I have heard one in a medium sized room sounding absolutely gorgeous. The owner has a youtube channel as well and I've emailed him to ask if I can post a link here.
Also this same EMGCR gramophone of mine sounded noticeably better in Graham Rankin's larger sitting room when I went to collect it. There are skillings on each side of this room of mine which makes the actual area a lot smaller than one would think, even though the floor area is the size of a decent sized room. It also creates eight surfaces for sound waves to bounce off. Whatever the cause, there can be a stridency in certain notes that I've never heard from any of these gramophones elsewhere, and the room is particularly unfair to the Oversize horn.
My own experience has convinced me that acoustic surroundings is a vastly underrated consideration in evaluating these instruments. This same room, as I think I've said elsewhere, was wonderful for HMV re-entrants until I tried to make it more amenable to the EMGCR and Expert. Now it is not as re-entrant friendly and more EMG/Expert friendly!




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff9O2x9ZayM EMGCR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc_Ye1UGz_E Expert.

chunnybh wrote:

No criticism construed! After all, most of this whole thing boils down to personal preference in the end. I don't myself see either EMG, Expert or indeed HMV as being superior or inferior to each other. If I did I wouldn't have this room full of gramophones and my pockets empty! I like to see it as a matter of happy enjoyment and personal preference and enrichment.

However - both EMGs have mechanical motors (Garrard Super and Collaro D30) whereas the Expert has an electric one.

The two windup motors are great, the Super probably the best ever made but you really need an electric motor in all of them to compare them.
The same motor and the same soundbox would be interesting.

By the way, that thick platter on the Expert, what is it exactly. To me it looks like one of those lightweight bulky alloy turntables from the 70's and 80's.

And as for Bowlly. There are a few videos on my Youtube channel. He'd have been 115 earlier this month, 7th .
http://youtu.be/MCGqHaEEvWg

It had occurred to me that an electric motor in the EMGCR would make the whole issue easier to quantify. Mind you I much prefer a spring wound motor to an electric one. In my neck of the woods a "gramophone" was a spring wound phenomenon with a soundbox and anything else was a "record player." I want a "gramophone" not a "record player" because we had agramophone all through my childhood. Makes no sense of course, but what's the point of trying to be sensible in something as harmlessly mad as this wonderful hobby?!
I took off the Expert turntable to examine it. It's considerably heavier than the Garrard turntable on the EMGCR. On the rear side is engraved SOUND SALES. I'm not well enough in touch with these matters to know what it's made of. I must contact the owner and ask.
Thanks for these and all your other comments.

Permission granted! This was the first EMG Oversize I heard. The floor area of the room is not big though a high ceiling makes the space quite a bit bigger.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndhVwWOu-Uo

dd2u wrote:I have heard that advice, but for me, putting your head at the mouth of any EMG or Expert is just wonderful (if you can stand the volume). In that position, the room matters far less (and I have tried this in small rooms, large rooms, and outside).

I'm reminded of the time a friend came to record a record from the Oversize for background to a play. This was on really good equipment with a little mixing desk. He placed the microphone directly in front of the horn, almost in the mouth. The result was the same wonderful reproduction that I had heard, and still hear, where these gramophones and horns are built. At this time I still hadn't got a carpet for the floor here and the actual sound in the room was quite harsh and very loud.

Frankia wrote:Permission granted! This was the first EMG Oversize I heard. The floor area of the room is not big though a high ceiling makes the space quite a bit bigger.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndhVwWOu-Uo

Thanks Frankia, I'd actually found and favorited this some time back and forgotten about it. The functional gas lighting int the video is also a nice touch. One other member here redid his house with gas lighting plumbed throughout.