The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I guess this means I'll have to take a special measurement for the openninbg for the gentleman to make the correct size of grill.
Anyone got an original reproducer they want to sell?
Thanks very much for your help on this....
Now, what about the turntable?
It came off the Wm. and, Mary.
I was supplied with a replacemtnt turntable some years ago for the A150. My crand escutcheon, which I had picked up is oxidized. So, that's correct.
On the amberola 3, were the legs squre, or, round?
Bill Cahill

Bill Cahill wrote:Thank you VERY much for the information! Shows what I know.. Nothing!
Now, my questions. Whre could I actually get the correct reproducer?
What type of value does the Edisonic have? I know the machines are rare. Am I wrong to keep that reproduceer on the machine? Do they eat records?
This is very interesting.
Thanks for your help.
Bill Cahill

It's conceivable that an A150 owner would have decided to upgrade to an Edisonic. Since there was not one offered in oxidised finish, he may very well have chosen gun metal. An Edisonic, with the dramatically heavier weight and spring loaded stylus has to significantly increase record wear. Also, the limit pin on the Edisonic has less play and the Dance even less yet. This means on any records of varying thickness or slight warp it's much more likely that the pin bumps against the reproducer body or the sides of the loop causing the stylus to dig into and damage your record. You need to be careful with them in that respect.

quote="Bill Cahill"]Just looked at the original reproducer off the Wm. and, Mary. It is also the gun metal finnish. In fact, all parts are.
My turntable on the A150 is also gun metal, apparently. Well, I may never get this machine right. Shoot......
The standard reproducer sounds softer, and, not as good high frequencies.
Yet, vol. is pretty good, and, it doesn't rattle. Maybe it needs new gaskets......
Bill Cahill[/quote]

The turntable on my oak A150 is gold. All other metal parts are oxidized. The turntable on my oak A250 is nickeled with all other metal parts gold wash. I know the A250 turntable is correct because it has the serial no. of the machine penciled on the bottom side. Both have brown felt.

The turntable on my mahogany 150 is nickeled with green felt. Are you sure yours is not nickeled? All other parts are gold wash except the horn elbow which is oxidized. Yours could well be correct.

If the gaskets have not been replaced on your standard reproducer they need to be for sure. The diaphragm could also be warped and your stylus might not be good. Properly rebuilt it will sound very good. I've got Edisonics, Dance, and Standard reproducers all properly rebuilt. I almost never use anything but the standard reproducer.

Here's what yours should look like. This one, I bought some time back also has the incorrect reproducer which I've since replaced with the correct one.

Both of my turntables are gun metal with brown felt.
Crank escutcheon is Oxidyzed bronze.
Bill Cahill

Bill Cahill wrote:Both of my turntables are gun metal with brown felt.
Crank escutcheon is Oxidyzed bronze.
Bill Cahill

Somebody parted out an A150 on eBAY a short time back. You might contact him and see what other parts he has. Probably the turntable would have been nickeled with green felt on yours to be absolutely correct.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Edison-Maha ... true&rt=nc

He's the one I boutht the cabinet from. I tried bidding on the parts, and, they sold for alot of money. I lost.
Bill Cahill

The limit pin on the Dance is the same diameter as the New Service (later Edisonic in '27) and measures at .140 diam. The limit loops are also the same size as well.
The main difference between the two (other than the flange) was that the Dance had a spring loaded diaphragm (which is thicker than the earlier one) as well as a spring loaded stylus. If you remove the 3 screws and separate the the sound cup from the output tube and look down, you will see a small coil spring attached to the top of the diaphragm and the other end is hooked to a small bar that goes across the flange opening. Dance Reproducers were stamped with the serial number and the letters LD signifying Loud Dance. The Edisonics/New Standard will be stamped with the serial number plus NS.
Now, to make this even more confusing, you may find a Dance that is stamped NS/serial #/ and LD. Ever frugal Tom saw no need to throw away perfectly good Dance bodies when he was coming out with the NS/Edisonic, so he dispensed with the diaphragm spring and stamped the bodies with NS.
On rare occasions you will also find an earlier Standard DD Reproducer that was factory converted to a NS/Edisonic. This will have the new heavier weight and spring loaded stylus but if you look closely, you will see where the old holes for the narrower limit loop were filled in. These will be fairly close to the new loop. Also, the Reproducer will have the old style serial # and letter designation but will also have NS stamped before or after.

Amberola 1-A wrote:The limit pin on the Dance is the same diameter as the New Service (later Edisonic in '27) and measures at .140 diam. The limit loops are also the same size as well.
The main difference between the two (other than the flange) was that the Dance had a spring loaded diaphragm (which is thicker than the earlier one) as well as a spring loaded stylus. If you remove the 3 screws and separate the the sound cup from the output tube and look down, you will see a small coil spring attached to the top of the diaphragm and the other end is hooked to a small bar that goes across the flange opening. Dance Reproducers were stamped with the serial number and the letters LD signifying Loud Dance. The Edisonics/New Service will be stamped with the serial number plus NS.
Now, to make this even more confusing, you may find a Dance that is stamped NS/serial #/ and LD. Ever frugal Tom saw no need to throw away perfectly good Dance bodies when he was coming out with the NS/Edisonic, so he dispensed with the diaphragm spring and stamped the bodies with NS.
On rare occasions you will also find an earlier Standard DD Reproducer that was factory converted to a NS/Edisonic. This will have the new heavier weight and spring loaded stylus but if you look closely, you will see where the old holes for the narrower limit loop were filled in. These will be fairly close to the new loop. Also, the Reproducer will have the old style serial # and letter designation but will also have NS stamped before or after.

That's valuable and interesting information. I've got at least one Edisonic that appears to be factory converted from a Standard. I would only add that the dance and edisonic are much less forgiving on records that are slighly warped, of varying thickness or pressed slightly off center. The larger limit pin and more shallow limit loop can cause the pin to bump into the loop or body of the reproducer more easily.

Valecnik wrote:

Amberola 1-A wrote:The limit pin on the Dance is the same diameter as the New Service (later Edisonic in '27) and measures at .140 diam. The limit loops are also the same size as well.
The main difference between the two (other than the flange) was that the Dance had a spring loaded diaphragm (which is thicker than the earlier one) as well as a spring loaded stylus. If you remove the 3 screws and separate the the sound cup from the output tube and look down, you will see a small coil spring attached to the top of the diaphragm and the other end is hooked to a small bar that goes across the flange opening. Dance Reproducers were stamped with the serial number and the letters LD signifying Loud Dance. The Edisonics/New Service will be stamped with the serial number plus NS.
Now, to make this even more confusing, you may find a Dance that is stamped NS/serial #/ and LD. Ever frugal Tom saw no need to throw away perfectly good Dance bodies when he was coming out with the NS/Edisonic, so he dispensed with the diaphragm spring and stamped the bodies with NS.
On rare occasions you will also find an earlier Standard DD Reproducer that was factory converted to a NS/Edisonic. This will have the new heavier weight and spring loaded stylus but if you look closely, you will see where the old holes for the narrower limit loop were filled in. These will be fairly close to the new loop. Also, the Reproducer will have the old style serial # and letter designation but will also have NS stamped before or after.

That's valuable and interesting information. I've got at least one Edisonic that appears to be factory converted from a Standard. I would only add that the dance and edisonic are much less forgiving on records that are slighly warped, of varying thickness or pressed slightly off center. The larger limit pin and more shallow limit loop can cause the pin to bump into the loop or body of the reproducer more easily.

Bruce,

Would your conversion be of an oxidized or gunmetal finish? I've seen two (I own one) so far and one was oxidized and the other gunmetal. I haven't come across any in nickel or gold plated.
You're right about the Dance & NS being less forgiving but by the time they came out in '26 and '27 respectively, the thickness was fairly standard between .220 and .250, unlike the earlier discs, especially the incised ones. The Dance/Edisonic really won't improve the pre 51000 series sound. They will sound louder but more harsh due to the surface quality. The Dance was meant for, well, just that! Dance records! Especially starting around the 514xx foxtrots. The Edisonic was designed for the electrically recorded records from 52089 and later and again won't sound good on earlier DDs.

Amberola 1-A wrote:

Valecnik wrote:

Amberola 1-A wrote:The limit pin on the Dance is the same diameter as the New Service (later Edisonic in '27) and measures at .140 diam. The limit loops are also the same size as well.
The main difference between the two (other than the flange) was that the Dance had a spring loaded diaphragm (which is thicker than the earlier one) as well as a spring loaded stylus. If you remove the 3 screws and separate the the sound cup from the output tube and look down, you will see a small coil spring attached to the top of the diaphragm and the other end is hooked to a small bar that goes across the flange opening. Dance Reproducers were stamped with the serial number and the letters LD signifying Loud Dance. The Edisonics/New Service will be stamped with the serial number plus NS.
Now, to make this even more confusing, you may find a Dance that is stamped NS/serial #/ and LD. Ever frugal Tom saw no need to throw away perfectly good Dance bodies when he was coming out with the NS/Edisonic, so he dispensed with the diaphragm spring and stamped the bodies with NS.
On rare occasions you will also find an earlier Standard DD Reproducer that was factory converted to a NS/Edisonic. This will have the new heavier weight and spring loaded stylus but if you look closely, you will see where the old holes for the narrower limit loop were filled in. These will be fairly close to the new loop. Also, the Reproducer will have the old style serial # and letter designation but will also have NS stamped before or after.

That's valuable and interesting information. I've got at least one Edisonic that appears to be factory converted from a Standard. I would only add that the dance and edisonic are much less forgiving on records that are slighly warped, of varying thickness or pressed slightly off center. The larger limit pin and more shallow limit loop can cause the pin to bump into the loop or body of the reproducer more easily.

Bruce,

Would your conversion be of an oxidized or gunmetal finish? I've seen two (I own one) so far and one was oxidized and the other gunmetal. I haven't come across any in nickel or gold plated.
You're right about the Dance & NS being less forgiving but by the time they came out in '26 and '27 respectively, the thickness was fairly standard between .220 and .250, unlike the earlier discs, especially the incised ones. The Dance/Edisonic really won't improve the pre 51000 series sound. They will sound louder but more harsh due to the surface quality. The Dance was meant for, well, just that! Dance records! Especially starting around the 514xx foxtrots. The Edisonic was designed for the electrically recorded records from 52089 and later and again won't sound good on earlier DDs.

Mine is nickel. I've never seen an oxidised Edisonic or Dance at all. Did the converted oxidized Edisonic have also an oxidised weight then? Odd since the only machine on which it would be correct would be the A150.

Interesting about the dance is that they expected you to change from standard to dance and back, depending on the type of record you were playing. This is mentioned in the piece of dance literature I posted in this thread.