Random Thoughts on Over-Restoration

[Steve]

"Wet" or "dry", that refinishing job on the humpback is atrocious! My guess is that the problem was one of timing. Whenever it was botched the offending person simply ran a brush with modern varnish over it quickly. It doesn't look as though any attempt has been made to smooth or even out the finish. It's just a quick fix job that makes it look worse than it ever could have done left untouched.

I recently bought a machine with about the same level of attention given to the refinishing. The dull "dry spots" seen above were also all over my machine. Needless to add the varnish has now been removed and a soft satin sheen is evenly reflected off of all sides of the cabinet. On light oaks I simply use paste wax on bare wood. Dark finishes and mahogany especially are a bit tricky to work with. But a quick brush over with varnish is not the answer!

[welshfield]

About 25 years ago someone in MAPS proposed judging phonographs during their annual show --as they do antique cars. I think I successfully discouraged them because, to my knowledge, they don't do it. I brought up the over-restoration issue, which at that time was prevalent with the cars. Perfectly-presentable, untouched cars were, without question, disassembled bolt by bolt and finished and polished and put back together resembling nothing like their original showroom condition. Production-line, mass-produced cars were shown with hand rubbed, "see-your-face-in-it" paint jobs. Run of the mill leather upholstered seats were now finished with top-grained Scottish cow hides. And in the process a whole load of historical information was lost forever.

I think these wet-look phonograph jobs we are now seeing reflect some of this car-restoration mentality.

Fortunately, in the car hobby --at least for the teens and twenties production type models-- the younger generaton of enthusiasts is highly interested in "barn-fresh" examples, not to restore, but to preserve. This of course leaves those over-restored cars of the recent past in a marketing limbo, since these are becomming less desireable --or at the very least, are not generating the market value they once did.

So far, most of our phonograph collectors seem to side with the antique-furniture group in regarding any restoration as detrimental, unless it's unavoidable. But in those cases, I side with the guys who want to bring the machines back to their "showroom" condition", since otherwise the machine would be nearly worthless and presumably unusable. In fact, if you are dealing with a machine with a completely lost finish and missing most of its nickel plating, how do you not restore it to its original, showroom condition?

[FloridaClay]

Are these "wet look" phonographs acceptable, or were the positive comments just to console the poster/owner?

No. Most any collector I know who might be given one of these would run for their refinishing material ASAP and get that stuff off.

Clay

[Norfolkguy]

Guess the wet look is coming back in? That is bloody awful

In my search for phonographs, I am coming upon many with the "wet look".

This post has all positive comments, but it also has the wet look.

Are these "wet look" phonographs acceptable, or were the positive comments just to console the poster/owner?

I guess that when it's a finished project that someone has worked really hard on, positive reactions are the best! It is a nice Victrola, and as long as it's still singing and making someone happy, it's all good. That said, I hate poly finishes on antiques!

[Steve]

Oil based products are being phased out generally and replaced with acrylic water based varnishes and paints. Does this do anything to help the "poly" look? Has anyone ever tried?

[Norfolkguy]

Oil based products are being phased out generally and replaced with acrylic water based varnishes and paints. Does this do anything to help the "poly" look? Has anyone ever tried?

The poly I used was Minwax Spar Varnish....this was in the 80's, I ruined a table model myself.....live and learn, I hope!

[Player-Tone]

I think the refinished wet look is ONLY acceptable if it looks like the original finish. My 1924 Player-Tone originally had a wet look, which is still visible on the inside doors and lid. The surface that was exposed on the outside developed a fine crazing and alligator texture over the years which gave it a satin look (still very nice).
If a wet finish is needed I think it should be created with the same material as the original - no polyurethane!

[FloridaClay]

Many phonographs did have a high gloss finish when made. Go back and look at some of the old time store window photographs and notice the reflections in the surfaces. But at least on the better machines they were very high quality--well prepared smooth wood, grain filler, and multiple coats of carefully done shellac. That gives a glass-smooth "piano" finish with amazing visual depth to it that draws your attention to the beauty of the grain.

In fairness I should also add that pictures of restorations can sometimes be deceiving, especially when flash or spotlights are used, and that it looks much better in person. And we all learn as we go. The mistakes I have made are probably beyond counting.

Clay

[De Soto Frank]

I have found that the best place to look for clues to original finish is the underside of the lid, the indside of doors, etc.

Usually, these surfaces are not subject to UV deterioration from sunlight, or physical wear.


I agree with Florida Clay, most of these cabinet machines did have a "shiny" finish, but I think was a different kind of "shiny" than a "polyurethane, wet, bar-finish"...

I generally describe the finish as a "piano finish"... ( not modern plastic finishes, often seen on Asian pianos ), which is much like a French Polish.

I don't know if the humpbacks still used shellac, or whether Victor has changed to Pyroxiln lacquer...

The other "catch" with refinished furniture, especially mahogany, is that most folks strip it, thn apply the new finish without bothering to fill the grain - the "porous" result can be seen at any antique mall, when looking at mid-20th century Federal period revival furniture tha has been re-done.

I generally leave the finish alone on my machines; I think I'd rather look at an aligatored (but otherwise intact) original finish than my wretched attempt to refinish a piece...

[FloridaClay]

If I remember (a major qualification at my age), Victor switched from shellac to a nitrocellulose lacquer right around the time the Orthophonics came out in the mid-1920s.

Clay