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US PHONO wrote: There are about 5 stands that I have heard of in European collections.

The black stand was used for the 15a (with the gilt columns), as well as the ebonized model that has the art nouveau panels of a lady on its sides, as here. http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=2764

Five!!, that's a very low number indeed. I wish pics could be posted of them for comparison.

If the gilt column model is a 15a. What was the number designation for the Melba...??. A European collector informed me that it was the 15 and the other a 14. Were these machine's given the same number regardless which country they were sold..??

Now I'm confused .

Perhaps I can shed some light on this issue as I have now received a reply from a leading expert on G&T in the UK. Here is the information he was kind enough to share:

The gilded column model was a Style 14, or a De Luxe. I have never seen it called a 15 or a 15a (although the 15 number had previously been used, briefly, for what became the Monarch Senior.) Possibly the fact that the Melba was also known as 'De Luxe B' has led to an inference that the 14 was 'De Luxe A', which it was although I have never seen it so designated. If it was ever called '15a', it could have been in one of the overseas markets, where numbers were not always the same as in the UK.

The G & T model numbering takes an effort to get your head around, and I can only apologize for this complicated answer!

Her it is called 115a

US PHONO wrote:Her it is called 115a

Awesome drawing. However, which country was this 115a offered..??.

And here 14

gramophone78 wrote:

US PHONO wrote:Her it is called 115a

Awesome drawing. However, which country was this 115a offered..??.

Bial & Freund - so toward the Austro-Hungarian empire

gramophone78 wrote: I have now received a reply from a leading expert on G&T in the UK. Here is the information he was kind enough to share:

The gilded column model was a Style 14, or a De Luxe. I have never seen it called a 15 or a 15a

For clarification: The "Monarch De Luxe No. 15a" ("the gilded column model") was classified between the well-known "No. 15" and the "Monarch De Luxe No. 15b" (= "Melba" in the UK). It was built by Deutsche Grammophon A.G. and exported to a number of countries where it was often renamed. For example, in Russia it was sold under the designation "Monarch C de Luxe," in Italy and the UK as "Monarch No. 14" or "No. 14 De Luxe"

"115a" was only the order number in the Bial & Freund catalog. Of course it refers to the D.G.A.G. model number.

Starkton wrote:

gramophone78 wrote: I have now received a reply from a leading expert on G&T in the UK. Here is the information he was kind enough to share:

The gilded column model was a Style 14, or a De Luxe. I have never seen it called a 15 or a 15a

For clarification: The "Monarch De Luxe No. 15a" ("the gilded column model") was classified between the well-known "No. 15" and the "Monarch De Luxe No. 15b" (= "Melba" in the UK). It was built by Deutsche Grammophon A.G. and exported to a number of countries where it was often renamed. For example, in Russia it was sold under the designation "Monarch C de Luxe," in Italy and the UK as "Monarch No. 14."

"115a" was only the order number in the Bial & Freund catalog. Of course it refers to the D.G.A.G. model number.

Well, that certainly makes sense to me... . I see what the man means about "getting ones head around the numbering system". I think I will stick to North American made Victor's. Thanks so much for posting these great ads.

If I understand Starkton's post...all models were made in Germany and then shipped to other countries... does this also pertain to the stands/ record cabinets also...??.

gramophone78 wrote:does this also pertain to the stands/ record cabinets also...??.

I think so.

Starkton wrote:

gramophone78 wrote:does this also pertain to the stands/ record cabinets also...??.

I think so.

This is what I have been lead to believe also. So, if this is indeed the case...does anyone know why...??. Was it because of the ebonizing or cost or...???. Was Germany the "place" for such work at that time..??.