The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Edisone wrote:

fran604g wrote:

phonogfp wrote:I wonder if that's the original building. It looks like it could have been built in the 1920s/30s as a car dealership or something. In any event, it sort of lacks the gravitas for being the "House of Music!"

Another thing to watch out for is street renumbering.

George P.

George, you are right, I haven't been able to find any photos of the building that would prove this is indeed where Curt C. Andrus' store was located. The store fronts were recently "upgraded" which would explain the modern decor. Who's to know if the buildings may have been razed? I will continue to search, though.

That building is the original. Nothing has been built on Webster Street since 1930. I attend monthly Mighty WuliTzer concerts at the Riviera Theater, on this very block - so I'm quite familiar with it. In fact, most pre-1940 buildings in the Buffalo area are either still standing or empty lots - very few were replaced by new construction, because we have never recovered from The Great Depression or the death of the railroads, death of Great Lakes shipping, steel industry, American Manufacturing, etc etc. The population declines every week & at least 30,000 houses stand abandoned, while Buffalo cannot find the million$$ needed to demolish them.



ps - Look again at the full-sized version of that building's photo. It's made of beautifully multi-colored bricks, with decorative stone insets and topped with copper. Such care is rarely seen on post-1930 construction. (try to ignore the grotesque billboard with ambulance-chasing shysters, who are the shame of Buffalo)

I'm happy that you chimed in on this! I looked at the Riviera location as a point of reference for the address, but I didn't find enough pictures to show me the entire row of buildings between that and the corner.

That helps.

I'm going to ask my son to stop by there and take a better picture. He lives in Buffalo and teaches at Niagara University, so it shouldn't be out of his way.

NEFaurora wrote:C-19? It looks more like the C-250! Look, It has drawers! Only the C-250 had drawers, The C-19's have slats for the records, I should know, I have both!

Beautiful machine, but I think that it's a C-250, and not a C-19. Re-check the dataplate ask re-ask George P. what the deal on the machine is.. You may just need to hunt for a C-250 dataplate and medallion as they were different on the C-19's

Get a pic of the gold medallion next to turntable, a pic of the id dataplate, and a pic of the drawers. We'll figure it out..

)

Tony K.

Tony, I suppose you were inferring from Frow?

What he actually wrote was:

"It is believed that all had two vertical record racks…"

Bill

Edison being famous (infamous?) for never wasting anything, it would not surprise me at all if any remaining C250 cases with the drawers were used up in making the first C19s.

Clay

FloridaClay wrote:Edison being famous (infamous?) for never wasting anything, it would not surprise me at all if any remaining C250 cases with the drawers were used up in making the first C19s.

Clay

For that reason I wouldn't doubt that it came that way. Also I've never seen a Diamond Disc machine with a tag missing.

It should be remembered that Edison did not manufacture its own cabinets. These were contracted out to suppliers, and whenever a decision was made to make modifications (such as substituting slats for drawers), the existing contract for a particular supplier would need to be fulfilled before those changes would be made. The contract price was made on the basis of certain features. Changing the features required either a new contract or a renegotiation of the existing contract. Meanwhile, cabinet production continued, adhering to the existing contract.

I can guarantee that C-19 No.75339 was equipped with a drawer-type cabinet from Cabinet Factory No.18. The cabinet is identical to that supplied with the C-250.

However, Clay has C-19 No.14023 which may or may not have slats:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=16207

If the cabinet for No.14023 came from Factory No.18, I'm betting that it has drawers. However, if it came from a different factory, it may well have slats, depending on the contract date and production number for that particular factory. Can you enlighten us, Clay?

This also suggests that there may be C-19s bearing low serial numbers with slats, and C-19s with somewhat higher serial numbers still equipped with drawers. Cabinet production delays during the transitional period, as well as various contracts to various cabinet suppliers might well result in some overlap.

It's tempting (and perhaps just a bit lazy) for us collectors to set broad "rules" for what characteristics are seen on certain model phonographs. For instance, I used to believe that all C-250s had pinstriped bedplates...until I learned on this forum that late C-250s lack pinstripes. I really should have known better.

So are we to believe that in April 1919, someone snapped a corporate finger and overnight the model designation was changed from C-250 to C-19, pinstripes disappeared, and drawers were replaced with slats? It's easier to remember, but unfortunately it's not accurate.

The facts are that C-250s are found with and without pinstripes. All C-250s have drawers. C-19s have no pinstripes. C-19s are found with drawers and with slats.

George P.

phonogfp wrote:It should be remembered that Edison did not manufacture its own cabinets. These were contracted out to suppliers, and whenever a decision was made to make modifications (such as substituting slats for drawers), the existing contract for a particular supplier would need to be fulfilled before those changes would be made. The contract price was made on the basis of certain features. Changing the features required either a new contract or a renegotiation of the existing contract. Meanwhile, cabinet production continued, adhering to the existing contract.

I can guarantee that C-19 No.75339 was equipped with a drawer-type cabinet from Cabinet Factory No.18. The cabinet is identical to that supplied with the C-250.

However, Clay has C-19 No.14023 which may or may not have slats:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=16207

If the cabinet for No.14023 came from Factory No.18, I'm betting that it has drawers. However, if it came from a different factory, it may well have slats, depending on the contract date and production number for that particular factory. Can you enlighten us, Clay?

This also suggests that there may be C-19s bearing low serial numbers with slats, and C-19s with somewhat higher serial numbers still equipped with drawers. Cabinet production delays during the transitional period, as well as various contracts to various cabinet suppliers might well result in some overlap.

It's tempting (and perhaps just a bit lazy) for us collectors to set broad "rules" for what characteristics are seen on certain model phonographs. For instance, I used to believe that all C-250s had pinstriped bedplates...until I learned on this forum that late C-250s lack pinstripes. I really should have known better.

So are we to believe that in April 1919, someone snapped a corporate finger and overnight the model designation was changed from C-250 to C-19, pinstripes disappeared, and drawers were replaced with slats? It's easier to remember, but unfortunately it's not accurate.

The facts are that C-250s are found with and without pinstripes. All C-250s have drawers. C-19s have no pinstripes. C-19s are found with drawers and with slats.

George P.

That's also consistent with the seemingly disorganized manner in which the early Amberola 1s were put into variations of cabinets.

Alas in working on the machine in the past few days, I found that I had made a mistake--omitting a digit when I wrote the number down. The serial number on my example is actually, when observed in better light, 140237, so is from much later in the production run and, as one would expect, carries the slats.

Clay

phonogfp wrote:It should be remembered that Edison did not manufacture its own cabinets. These were contracted out to suppliers, and whenever a decision was made to make modifications (such as substituting slats for drawers), the existing contract for a particular supplier would need to be fulfilled before those changes would be made. The contract price was made on the basis of certain features. Changing the features required either a new contract or a renegotiation of the existing contract. Meanwhile, cabinet production continued, adhering to the existing contract.

I can guarantee that C-19 No.75339 was equipped with a drawer-type cabinet from Cabinet Factory No.18. The cabinet is identical to that supplied with the C-250.

However, Clay has C-19 No.14023 which may or may not have slats:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=16207

If the cabinet for No.14023 came from Factory No.18, I'm betting that it has drawers. However, if it came from a different factory, it may well have slats, depending on the contract date and production number for that particular factory. Can you enlighten us, Clay?

This also suggests that there may be C-19s bearing low serial numbers with slats, and C-19s with somewhat higher serial numbers still equipped with drawers. Cabinet production delays during the transitional period, as well as various contracts to various cabinet suppliers might well result in some overlap.

It's tempting (and perhaps just a bit lazy) for us collectors to set broad "rules" for what characteristics are seen on certain model phonographs. For instance, I used to believe that all C-250s had pinstriped bedplates...until I learned on this forum that late C-250s lack pinstripes. I really should have known better.

So are we to believe that in April 1919, someone snapped a corporate finger and overnight the model designation was changed from C-250 to C-19, pinstripes disappeared, and drawers were replaced with slats? It's easier to remember, but unfortunately it's not accurate.

The facts are that C-250s are found with and without pinstripes. All C-250s have drawers. C-19s have no pinstripes. C-19s are found with drawers and with slats.

George P.

Thank you, George, for your input on this topic, the thread has become very interesting to me.

Fran

FloridaClay wrote:Alas in working on the machine in the past few days, I found that I had made a mistake--omitting a digit when I wrote the number down. The serial number on my example is actually, when observed in better light, 140237, so is from much later in the production run and, as one would expect, carries the slats.

Clay

Oh darn... I was hoping for some interesting situation to emerge!

I'm getting to the point where I like lots and lots of light. My workbench has an overhead plus an adjustable arm light on each end. I like to have a flashlight nearby wherever I am in the house, because I know sooner or later my eyesight wll get ti te pint whr I cnt see a dmn tng

George P.

phonogfp wrote:

FloridaClay wrote:Alas in working on the machine in the past few days, I found that I had made a mistake--omitting a digit when I wrote the number down. The serial number on my example is actually, when observed in better light, 140237, so is from much later in the production run and, as one would expect, carries the slats.

Clay

Oh darn... I was hoping for some interesting situation to emerge!

I'm getting to the point where I like lots and lots of light. My workbench has an overhead plus an adjustable arm light on each end. I like to have a flashlight nearby wherever I am in the house, because I know sooner or later my eyesight wll get ti te pint whr I cnt see a dmn tng

George P.

I am getting there, having just celebrated by 34th 39th birthday on the 8th.

Clay