The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Thanks HMV for confirming that is not the
proper key anyway.

Wes, I did consider going up there from
Union, but Union needed to be its own daytrip,
there just was not time to do both things.

Brianu, you are hilarious. Funny guy.

As Rodney Dangerfield says:

"I just don't get no respect"

Chuck

Chuck wrote:Thanks HMV for confirming that is not the
proper key anyway.

Wes, I did consider going up there from
Union, but Union needed to be its own daytrip,
there just was not time to do both things.

Brianu, you are hilarious. Funny guy.

As Rodney Dangerfield says:

"I just don't get no respect"

Chuck

Chuck,

Out of curiosity was your brother able to take a look at it? I'm curious if the troubles with it are greater than operator error. After looking at the pictures again, I notice that the speed control is set for full speed and the "go" and "stop" levers seem to be in the correct positions for play. So, I guess that would certainly suggest some mechanical issue.

Best,
Fran

Valecnik wrote:Looks like a nice example. Just go grab it. If I were the seller, I'd not let it go for that price.

If you are interested in this type of machine, don't worry about a missing key or the potential need for a spring replacement. Both are easily dealt with. On the other hand, if it has cabinet damage, that's much more difficult to fix and it will always look restored.

Absolutely!

The cabinet is the thing. Otherwise the C-250 has just a standard Diamond Disc mechanism. These are pretty robust and easily repaired, though I admit that it is often easier to go out to the shed and pick out a substitute unit rather than fiddle with a balky motor. After all, what is a DD mech worth these days? $25.00?

Uncle Vanya wrote:

Valecnik wrote:Looks like a nice example. Just go grab it. If I were the seller, I'd not let it go for that price.

If you are interested in this type of machine, don't worry about a missing key or the potential need for a spring replacement. Both are easily dealt with. On the other hand, if it has cabinet damage, that's much more difficult to fix and it will always look restored.

Absolutely!

The cabinet is the thing. Otherwise the C-250 has just a standard Diamond Disc mechanism. These are pretty robust and easily repaired, though I admit that it is often easier to go out to the shed and pick out a substitute unit rather than fiddle with a balky motor. After all, what is a DD mech worth these days? $25.00?

The one pictured also has the decorated bedplate which is a plus over the plain flat black. If there is a broken spring, dropping in a new spring barrel from another motor is much easier than installing a new spring in the barrel, if you have an extra motor laying around.

One final question for all of you seasoned
DD experts out there, who have seen the
insides of many of these DD machine motors:

Do you guys really think we are most likely
looking at two broken springs here, on this
non-running machine?

I would like to get some idea of the probability of finding broken springs, vs
some simple thing like just seriously gummed
up works that needs oiling and then it can
take right off and run.

You guys who have seen it all....what does
this sound like to you?

I would greatly appreciate any views anyone
may have about this.

And, yes, yes, I know "it's all about the
cabinet, never mind if it runs" and all of
that. But I need to know how much work I
am most likely looking at here.

Kind of looks like at least a diamond and
two springs, to me, so far.

What say you?

Chuck

Chuck wrote:One final question for all of you seasoned
DD experts out there, who have seen the
insides of many of these DD machine motors:

Do you guys really think we are most likely
looking at two broken springs here, on this
non-running machine?

I would like to get some idea of the probability of finding broken springs, vs
some simple thing like just seriously gummed
up works that needs oiling and then it can
take right off and run.

You guys who have seen it all....what does
this sound like to you?

I would greatly appreciate any views anyone
may have about this.

And, yes, yes, I know "it's all about the
cabinet, never mind if it runs" and all of
that. But I need to know how much work I
am most likely looking at here.

Kind of looks like at least a diamond and
two springs, to me, so far.

What say you?

Chuck

If the machine sat unplayed 14 years, then it very possibly could be frozen up from hardened gunk or some misadjustment. Springs of course do break, but not as often as some people may fear. In 48 years, I've had two break - in each case while playing, not while winding. It seems pretty unlikely to me that both springs would have broken simultaneously. If one spring broke, then the other had no chance to be over-wound or used further until it broke! While I suppose anything is possible, I rather doubt the violent release of energy in the first spring would have broken the second spring. Hearing a spring tear loose is a startling experience however.

Thanks for your take on that Vintage Tech.

Also a big thank-you to all the
rest of you helpful gentlemen, who have
offered your tips and opinions about this
whole subject.

I have sure learned a bunch in this thread!

Some of it is good technical stuff about DD
machines, and a few other details are things
which I've learned about what not to discuss
on this list, ever again.

Negotiating a deal appears to be fine
only for a few select folks, and anyone else
who attempts to do so, gets branded a
"cheapskate". Well, well, well.

Lesson learned!!

Fair deal = only for a few elite class guys, huh? Ok I understand now.

Chuck

Chuck wrote:Negotiating a deal appears to be fine
only for a few select folks, and anyone else
who attempts to do so, gets branded a
"cheapskate". Well, well, well.

Lesson learned!!

Fair deal = only for a few elite class guys, huh? Ok I understand now.

Chuck

Chuck,

With all due respect, I don't think anyone was calling you a cheapskate, although you were pretty much saying that you were being cheap in your own words!

I've been in this hobby for almost 30 years and I've never in my life come across such a nice oak C-250 in ANY condition anywhere within my reach for such a great price. Apparently most other members here haven't either. If this machine was within a couple hours drive for me, you wouldn't still be wondering this and that about it, the machine would be in my phonograph room as I type. For several pages, there have been repeated suggestions to just get the machine and worry about what is insignificant stuff later.

That's my take and only my take. If you want to accuse me of being smarmy, go ahead, but I'm only saying that the machine is a bargain at that price (as I said before).

Good luck,
Sean

The C-250 machine is now in the front
room here, at my old house in central Illinois.

Thanks to everyone here, and thanks to
Shawn Borri for helping me move it and work
on it.

Here's how it breaks down:
I paid $225 for it.

It had a busted winding-pawl spring which needed to be taken out, and a new hook reformed on the end where it hooks into the
steel stamping that's the catch, that jams
in between the gear teeth to take the spring
tension of the two huge power springs.

The catch itself also had to be reformed
back to something resembling its original
shape.

Turns out the machine had been sitting those
14 years with the big springs completely
unwound and relaxed.

So, there you have it.
Paid $225, then we have the hourly rate
for two mechanics working on it for 9 hours to
get it running properly.

Then, we also have the upcoming labor costs
and parts costs of rebuilding the reproducer
in order to get a new diamond in there and
some new gaskets and get it all limbered up
and working right.

So, $225 is paying too little?

I seriously think not, because when you
factor in all the labor costs, it amounts
to about Avogadro's number of dollars
spent so far, and it aint even playing yet!

A friend of mine got a very nice C-250 machine
in similar condition to this one, and working,
and with a decent diamond for 60 bucks.

I would say there needs to be a recalibration
of what is commonly thought of as the "fair"
price for these machines.

Chuck

Chuck wrote: So, there you have it.
Paid $225, then we have the hourly rate
for two mechanics working on it for 9 hours to
get it running properly.

If I added my hourly rate onto the value of my machines, I'd have a goldmine here