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Ditto!

Clay

Hi, Thank you!
Allen

I wonder if there is any original data anywhere as to when the different types of back bracket/tone arm combinations shifted when used on the different early Vic II permutations and if there was any overlap (i.e., some earlier combos used after a newer Vic II variant was introduced to use up existing stock). The range of time covered by the various setups mentioned in this thread (except for the slip in elbow type mentioned in one of gramophone78's posts) was not all that great compared with the total run of Vic IIs. Assuming that The Victor Data Book is correct, tapered arms used with elbows that were clamped onto the back bracket ran from about Oct 1903 through Aug 1916. Elbows that just slipped into the bracket then began with the Type B Vic II.

Clay

The tonearm without the flange/collar appears to be consistent with Eldridge Johnson's tapering tonearm patent, filed in 1903. Still looking for a patent showing the flange/collar modification.

Clay

As an aside, The Complete Talking Machine has some rather harsh words for the Victor II: "The Victor II, despite the fancy tapered tonearm, has a tracking error in excess of 17[degrees]! This then, is not a machine to play rare records on!"

Clay

FloridaClay wrote:As an aside, The Complete Talking Machine has some rather harsh words for the Victor II: "The Victor II, despite the fancy tapered tonearm, has a tracking error in excess of 17[degrees]! This then, is not a machine to play rare records on!"

Clay

Yes, I've seen that mentioned many times. Fortunately I have many more common records than rare ones, so not a big problem for me

Andreas

It was a good reminder for me Andreas. I rather like to use records that are contemporary with a machine when I do demos and had been using a nice litte 7" Victor Trademark to demo the Vic II. Probably not a good idea.

Clay

I don't think there is any machine contemporary to a 7" Victor trademark that will be easy on records. Not sure if any Victor machine with 7" turntable would qualify as a "safe" daily player. If I want to demonstrate my Vic.II with a period record I use one of the more plentiful 10" Victor "Grand Prize" or "Patent" label records.

Andreas

Well, the tone arm mystery has been a burr under my saddle. And I am now getting there.

My confusion partly came out of the fact that the same machine was offered in various configurations as the Monarch Junior, the Type E, and an early version of the Vic II at various times. The issue being what tone arm and bracket did I wind up with now, perhaps temporarily, on my Vic II humpback and where did it fit in all this. The one I have is like the one posted by Larry in the lower of the two pictures below.

A suggestion here early on proved right. Steve indicated a while back that it was a Victor E arm. Yesterday it dawned on me to ask a good friend who is a long time collector and who owns just about every Victor outside horn machine there is if he would peruse his collection and tell me where the arm appeared. An E he answered. And then today I found on-line picture of an E, serial number 58068 and said to have been in the same family since new, with a great picture of the arm and bracket, the upper picture here.

So it seems that at some point when the Monarch Special/Type E/early Vic II was transitioning away from the ridged arm and into the tapered arm and still being labeled as an E on the data plate this version was used. Assuming Baumbach is correct in LFTD, 2005 revised edition, page 51, the data plate type marking shifted from E to II before 1909. Now exactly when its use started, and then later stopped and the smooth large end arm replaced it I may never know. If forced to hazard a guess, and at this stage it would be just that, I would say the double-spring Victor II variant in The Victor Data Book that immediately precedes the humpback, shipped from Oct 1903 until approximately March 1905 and starting with serial number 50,177 might be the best candidate. (Numbers dropped back to 1 with the humpback introduction.) I'll keep my eyes pealed to see what machines it shows up on at future shows.

Clay