O/T - What will happen to the future of our hobby?

[Brad]

I don't think it has been said directly, but certainly alluded to in many of the posts. The sea of gray hair comes along with a means of some disposable income. Most collector society's, clubs, etc. that requires money to "play" will have a denser concentration of those in their "wealth building" years. The younger ones will grow up to replace them and we old geezers should do as much as we can to enable and help the newbie.

Great thread.

[yankmycrank]

Alert to the geezer crowd: them youngins don't need phonograph shows, etc. for their hobby needs. They can buy from Craigslist, eBoy, and a variety of other web sources; get their information from discussion groups such as this or from comments on YouTube videos--all without the inconvenience of shlepping to a collector show.

Now, I love the discovery of finding things at a show, let alone the social aspect of chatting with hobby friends (and making new ones), but these attributes put me solidly out of the realm of the Millenials, who demographers tell us prefer the relative anonymity of communication through a device rather than travel and face-to-face contact.

Incidentally, I've seen the same things happen with camera collecting and antique car collecting. This year's Hershey car show, for example, at times seemed to have more coots on motorized scooters than pedestrians. You simply don't have to scrounge through two days' worth of stuff to find restoration items these days--a trip to the 'net works just as well, if not better.

[Valecnik]

I don't think it has been said directly, but certainly alluded to in many of the posts. The sea of gray hair comes along with a means of some disposable income. Most collector society's, clubs, etc. that requires money to "play" will have a denser concentration of those in their "wealth building" years. The younger ones will grow up to replace them and we old geezers should do as much as we can to enable and help the newbie.

Great thread.

Well put Brad!

[Jerry B.]

When I started collecting in the early seventies, collecting seemed to be a regional pastime. It wasn't long before I became friends with many of the first generation collectors in the Pacific Northwest. I have always wondered if names like Ira Dueltgen, Bud Cannon, Orville White, John Davis, Joe Pittaluga, and Paul Graham were recognized outside of our area. For the most part, these collectors would not look twice at even a high end upright. Right or wrong, an "L" door Victrola was good only for the mechanical parts that could be used on a horn machine. Horn machines were the goal but even the fancy Columbia cylinder machines were somewhat unvalued and unappreciated. Perhaps that's because even simple replacement parts were difficult to obtain and a bad pot metal problem would be overwhelming. Collecting became more national with the growth of MAPS and the Union show. MAPS has always been a friendly club that welcomed and appreciated collectors worldwide. I will never forget my first trip to the MAPS banquet at Union and the applause I received for coming all the way from Oregon. Union has benefitted from being in the middle of the country. It has not only been a place to buy and sell but also a place where pre-sold items were delivered. What was true then is true today. Over the years collecting has evolved. I consider myself a second generation collector and many of us love and appreciate the internal horn machines. There's nothing like the thrill of finding a big Amberola or a specially finished Victrola. Most of my generation of machine collectors don't look twice at a suitcase portable. I admit to having next to no interest in portable disk machines but I encourage the younger collectors who are more likely to appreciate these machines.
I question the point of view that says there's no or little need for clubs or shows. It's true that you can buy many parts and needed items electronically. I have often wondered if the ebay seller purchased his items from the vendors that I deal with directly. Over the years I have come home from Union with world class items like a Pooley flat top Victrola, BS coin slot, Edison Concert, #10 Victor reproducer, and much more. I've also gone to Union to pick up pre-purchased items like a Grafonola with a Chinese finish, a Vic D, and even a Schwinn Sting-Ray Apple Krate (thank you Terry Baer!). It's true that you can buy most anything on ebay but shipping on a large Victrola is always a problem. If I sold a high end big machine, like my Auxetophone, the buyer would probably pay for crating and shipping. Would I equal success selling a midlevel Victrola on ebay? I recently purchased, on craigslist, a beautiful golden oak XVI. It's a nice as any Victrola I've ever seen or owned. Would ebay be a good venue to sell my XVI? Any prospective buyer would factor in the cost and difficulty of shipping. I believe my best bet for getting good value for my Victrola would be to advertise on this forum and others and offering deliver to Union or CAPS.
Maybe what I really enjoy is personal fellowship with other collectors. Some of my best friends are my phono nerd friends in the Pacific Northwest. I've also made great friends all over the country and Union is as much a gathering of friends as a it is a venue for buying and selling. If my main connection with other collectors was electronic, I'd quickly lose interest. Personally, it's much more fun to discover something at Union rather than hit the "buy it now" button.
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Happy collecting, Jerry Blais

[Jerry B.]

I have a question for the collecting community. When you read a craigslist ad and spelling, punctuation, and grammar seem to have been ignored, do you question the intelligence of the writer?

[JHolmesesq]

Jerry - an interesting point you raised there. Picking up on the suitcase portable issue. As a younger collector, my small dinky Columbia Grafonola 109a got me in to collecting - without it I wouldn't have any interest in the 78 rpm era.

Even though it is worth very little, it holds huge sentimental value for me as the only way to hear the sounds of the 20s and 30s as they were meant to be heard!

[Jerry B.]

Although I was asked by my mentoring collector friends why I was interested in uprights, I never felt criticized for buying them. Some of their cast offs were nothing less than wonderful. Likewise, I would never be critical of a collector that likes portables. At CAPS one of the sellers had a whole display of really nice portables. He took the time to demonstrate explain the advantages of each model and told me why he favored one over another. The quality of workmanship and the sound quality was amazing. I think we need to recognize and encourage the changes in our hobby. Jerry

[Skihawx]

Maybe what I really enjoy is personal fellowship with other collectors. Some of my best friends are my phono nerd friends in the Pacific Northwest. I've also made great friends all over the country and Union is as much a gathering of friends as a it is a venue for buying and selling. If my main connection with other collectors was electronic, I'd quickly lose interest. Personally, it's much more fun to discover something at Union rather than hit the "buy it now" button.
*
Happy collecting, Jerry Blais

While I haven't had much time the last few months for phonographs I miss having collectors nearby
to share info on machines and play records. We moved from central Indiana to central New Hampshire.
There are hadly people around here let alone phonograph collectors!!!

[SonnyPhono]

Well, here is my take on this subject. (Interesting subject by the way.)

I am a relatively new collector having been in the hobby for a little over 2 years now. I am 29 years old and didn't get into the hobby for any particular reason aside from a fascination with the mechanical aspect of phonographs. I was interested in mechanical sound reproduction and once I bought a few phonographs, the hobby broadened naturally to anything and everything phonograph. Once electricity comes into play, (particularly with post 1929 phonographs and radios) my interest drops off. I am writing this to demonstrate that you don't have to have a childhood memory of a phonograph or inherit a grandparent or great-grandparent's phonograph to enter the hobby and appreciate it as a whole.

That being said, I am not worried about the future of this hobby. Sure, there may not be as many people taking up the hobby as a consequence of inheriting a family heirloom in the future. But I feel there will always be the curiosity of how recorded sound began and a group of people interested enough to "collect". On top of that, we are talking about "antiques" here. Even if the total number of collectors goes down a bit, phonographs in general will never lose too much value. Generally speaking, the older something becomes, the more value it tends to hold. (Obviously that rule holds more water with some things than others. But that's a whole different discussion.)

The point was made that in 20 years or so the market may become "flooded" due to large collections becoming available. I agree with that to an extent and also feel that this will cause a small drop in the value of phonographs. But I think this will only be for a short period of time. After awhile I think everything will level out again due to the points mentioned in the last paragraph.

As for the phonograph shows and clubs, I think that's a great aspect of this hobby and hope it will continue. Sure the internet has allowed for a wealth of information to be shared without driving or paying to attend the shows and clubs. But I have found one of my favorite parts of this hobby is talking to fellow collectors and sharing information and stories. In my opinion, the internet is an amazing thing, but the hobby wouldn't be as fun without annual meetings, shows etc.

I guess the bottom line is this. If someone in the hobby is in it strictly for the investment and is trying to make a profit, maybe there is a reason to question the future and show some concern. However, if someone is in the hobby for the enjoyment of the hunt, the historical value of early recorded sound or simply because they find phonographs aesthetically pleasing, then the future of the hobby will always be a bright one.

[coyote]

I concur-great topic. I'm currently 36, but have been interested in phonographs since finding a cache of 78s at my grandmother's about the age of six. I was not only fascinated with the musical aspect, but the mechanical one as well; I recall asking my father how a wind-up phonograph worked. I had always wanted a phonograph from that time, but every relative had long since disposed of any mechanical phonograph they had owned. For many years, the only phonographs I saw and heard in person were the "not for sale" variety until my mother purchased a beat-up Grafonola for me at an antiques store when I was 13. I subscribed to APM at this time and fantasized about placing a "wanted" ad for my "dream machine": a 2/4 minute converted Triumph model B (and having the money to buy said machine). I didn't acquire another machine (which was to be that Triumph) until I had disposable income at the age of 28, and quite a few since then from eBay (9), Craigslist (1), and Wayne (1).

My long-winded point (apologies) is that, using myself as a model, disposable income was the largest factor, which generally increases with age (thanks, Brad!). The second factor was availability and accessibility, which the internet has played a huge role in. If I had wealthy parents and the internet, I may have started my collection sooner, but would probably have been much less discriminating.

As to the future of the hobby, I'm sure there will continue to be "oddball" kids like me who are interested. Not being a sociologist, I can only wonder if new generations will be more interested in obtaining the latest technology than antiques of any variety, or preserving history. Even if someone should come across a relative's collection that they are not interested in, they would most likely sell it (to someone who is) rather than using it for firewood, say. If the pool of collectors/hobbyists has become tiny, would the machines end up in storage at a museum at the very least? One wonders.

Again, my apologies for rambling, but on a related note, has anyone here made specific plans for their collection after they pass on? Personally, I haven't, but presume they will just be sold off, as I don't see the younger generation of my family having any interest in them whatsoever.