The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

...But why then does the machine carry no serial number, nor holes where a North American plate would have been mounted?

George P.

This is a good point to which I have no answer. Was it perhaps sold after the NAPCo. went bankrupt?

The period between North American's bankruptcy in August 1894 and Edison's formation of the National Phonograph Company in January 1896 was a turbulent time. Even though Edison couldn't legally sell Phonographs during that period, he wasn't prohibited from giving them away... Oops, I'm back to where I started! This is like reading a mystery with the last few pages torn out.

George P.

I was going to post this with my comment above, but in case anyone wants to see the "operator's manual," for the Perfected Phonograph, I spotted this complete online version of the 1892 booklet -- "A practical guide for the use of the Edison phonograph" by James L. Andem (President and General Manager of the Ohio Phonograph Company)

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http://books.google.com/books?id=AZ8_AA ... &q&f=false

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It also looks like reprints are also available from a number of sellers, including Amazon.

Andersun wrote:That machine is what dreams (at least mine) are made of! Great story and research, Thanks for sharing!!!
Steve

I couldn't say it better! Congratulations on your "dream find".

Scott

What an excellent machine!!

My own personal belief of one very good way to properly honor it, would be to make up an actual, real, working "Grenet" cell to power it with.

The Grenet cell typically pictured with these machines is detailed in books from the same period that contain information about those types of cells, and how they work.

They are not very complicated cells. They use a solution that has bichromate of potash with a little acid added to it.

The plates are lifted out of the solution using the rod and thumbscrew when the cell is not in use.

The plates are zinc and carbon. I have always thought that it would be very interesting to power up one of these old cells to use to run a class M machine.

Chuck wrote:My own personal belief of one very good way to properly honor it, would be to make up an actual, real, working "Grenet" cell to power it with.

This is a great idea, but I would vote for the historically correct Edison-Lalande battery. The Grenet cell was only used in 1888-1889 for the spectacle type Class M phonograph.

I'm glad you made that comment Starkton. I made a similar argument in an article I wrote for CAPS a few years ago. It's just that the Grenet is so much more attractive to display alongside a phonograph.

Here is another period correct Class M phonograph battery (Type "V") with Grenet cell for comparison.

Thank you gentlemen for pointing out those
differences in the cells. From quickly looking
it up, the Edison-Lalande cell uses a solution
of Potassium Hydroxide (caustic potash) as
the electrolyte.

It appears to be a variation on the basic
"copper oxide" cell. Quoting from "Primary
Batteries" copyright 1891 by Henry S. Carhart: "The copper oxide is employed in
the form of a compressed slab, which, with
its connecting copper support, serves also
as the negative plate. Two of these plates
are enclosed in a copper frame, on the longer
arm of which, is the binding post. A hard
rubber safety plug in the middle prevents the
zinc plate on either side from making contact
with the copper oxide and copper supporting
frame".

So, it would seem from the above that
the plates are copper oxide (-), and zinc (+)

It also goes on to say that the voltage per
cell of these is 0.7 volt. This explains why
you'd need four of them wired in series in
order to get 2.8 volts.

Compare that with the voltage of the bichromate cell, which is slightly more than
2 volts per cell. This is why it takes only
one grenet cell to power up a class M, where
as it takes 3 or 4 Edison Lalande cells in
series.

But, it would seem to me from looking at
the remains of many of those old cells that
there very possibly could be enough of the
plates left that all they would need would
to be cleaned up and have fresh electrolyte
added.

At the very worst case, in some cases new
plates might have to be made. But the framework is there for them, the containers
are there.

I would hope that somehow, some day that
there will be enough interest to actually
get a few of those old batteries working
again. Wouldn't that be neat to fit a newly
made blank on a class M (made from the correct 1888 wax formula of course), and power it up using the old cell(s), and then
make a recording and play it back?

Lots of work, I know, but certainly worth
all the effort.

What I have hooked up to it is a DC variable power supply, providing 2.5 Volts, 2 Amps current draw.

Cost $39, as I recall, and works fabulously.