The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

52089 wrote: My personal "favorite" is Mickey Rooney's supremely racist portrayal of a stereotypical Japanese man in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Makes me cringe every time he comes on screen...

I cringe every time Mickey Rooney appears on screen anyway!

George P.

Awe come on, I like Mickey Rooney! He was a great Rascal.

Regarding context, historical, or otherwise--

Words that are very bad today were commonplace and innocuous in medieval times.

Okay, RISK warping your computer screen FOREVER, but I post links to Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales (Indeed, my thread here is okay to read in polite society, more or less, but the links 'could' fry your computer):

http://english.fsu.edu/canterbury/miller.html

Check out line 3276, amongst others. This was a commonplace word beginning with the letter T, and completely harmless then (late 1300's), but it is not something one would use in American society (well, maybe I lack a filter sometimes... ). In Britain, this word is still used more freely. I have seen folks in the presence of several other folks that they don't know well, thwack a horse on the side and tell it to quit being a t___! (In the UK, it is pronounced differently than here, rhymes with hat, in the US, it rhymes with what).

See line 324 in the attachment:

http://www.librarius.com/canttran/reevt ... 14-344.htm

Again, a word today, although increasingly commonplace, is still considered a very bad word. Over 600 years ago, it wasn't considered that bad.

There is another very bad word that is even worse than the 'F bomb' that one certainly would not use today in the presence of the ladies, and it was used in place of the word (e.g., synonymous to) alluded to in line 3276 of the first attachment. Indeed, it was the word that I recall when I had to read the Canterbury Tales when I was in school. Indeed, when I saw that word (with glee), English class quickly went from dodgy and boring to exciting indeed!

If anyone has seen the HBO series Deadwood the F bomb is used throughout. Indeed, I researched this topic as I was curious if this word was used as freely as in the show. Well, not the case, but producers, if they used particularly racy terms from the 1800's, realized it would be lost upon a modern audience. For example, dad-blame it was regarded as particularly bad in the day, and means nothing today. If you are curious, check out the following:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/for ... -1097.html

One last thing about context and a time and place: I recall being at a British railroad station in the mid-1990's, and an American couple calls out to their child that if they don't behave, they will smack the child on the fanny, in front of several individuals, mostly Brits. (My apologies if I have offended any UK readers on this forum). In the US, it is okay to say that to anyone, including a child...in the UK, it is a very bad word.

Again, it is ALL about the times and the context.

The songs that Josh White and Ma Rainey recorded Sissy Man Blues and Sissy Blues at a time when homosexual behavior wasn't openly discussed.And,on an LP that I have on the Word label that I have called "Just A Little Talk With Ethel" by Ethel Waters she said that when she was a child she could cuss like a sailor (which,I think,could've included the notorious F word),Miss Waters also said"I have to pray about that even now!"Then she added,"I never take the Lord's name in vain,but I have a lot of other good subtitutes!"She was born in a Philadelphia ghetto,so that language was common there.edisonplayer

I have been collecting these cylinders for 25 years. By far, the hardest one to find is Youse just a little n***** but youse mine all mine. It was released only on Edison 4 minute wax and is cylinder # 588. Sung by Billie Murray and Ada Jones. You can hear it here.
http://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/searc ... Type=@attr

Correct working link for "You'se just a little [n****r], still youse mine, all mine" is: http://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/searc ... linder1882

Bob

I have quite a lot of such recordings on Edison 2 minute and Blue Amberol. Every once in a while I'll play one for guests, with a brief introduction to explain context. Needless to say people find it hard to believe such recordings were ever made, let alone popular.

Perhaps my rarest such recording is a Lioret #2 cylinder, in English, of "Mammy's Little Alabama Coon", recorded in 1894 according to Lioret historian Julien Anton. Hard to imagine this title on a French-made record.

The song was immensely popular starting in 1893 when it was written. It was recorded by many singers, the most incongruous perhaps being opera star Frieda Hempel on a Royal Purple Amberol in 1918 (which I also have in my collection). An operatic coon song?? Yup. It doesn't get any weirder.

One of my most mortifying memories was from my school days: I wanted to show off my 78s to an African-American schoolmate - and unthinkingly played Collins & Harlan's "Bake Dat Chicken Pie"...

Bill

Some people would object to the term African-American.Someone told me,"If they want to call themselves that,they should go back to the jungle!"THAT was racist!edisonplayer

Lucius1958 wrote:One of my most mortifying memories was from my school days: I wanted to show off my 78s to an African-American schoolmate - and unthinkingly played Collins & Harlan's "Bake Dat Chicken Pie"...

Bill

I had a similar experience once. One time an Asian friend of mine came over to the house and without thinking I played "From Here to Shanghai," by 'Gene Greene. Boy do I regret doing that. Thankfully he forgave me and we are still friends.

-Steve