The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I am looking forward to getting one of my two Brunswick uprights going; both have Ultona reproducers on them.

I probably would mostly be playing regular lateral discs - I only have three vertical Pathé` discs, and while the potential ability to play a Diamond-Disc on the Brunswick might be a neat party-trick, I will probably play them mostly on my C-19.

Larry - does your portable Panatrope have a metal diaphragm ?

I have an Exhibition, not Number 2, but the difference between my later 2-65 and Cortez and the VV-X with Exhibition is in the presentation of the dynamics. The Exhibition has a tendency to exaggerate the loud passages of Caruso records. On the Cortez, they sound astonishingly good.

My Cortez is entirely different than the Ultona machines. There are compromises in being able to play vertical records. The tone arm and seal of the reproducer on the Cortez is very precise. Much more precise than the Ultona that has to pivot to work. A lot of the trick to good sound is getting the sound to the horn as cleanly as possible. Victor was very good at that. Brunswick, not so much until they abandoned vertical.

That said, I am kind of thinking about searching out a nice Ultona!

I first learned about the Ultona reproducers when I was in music school, browsing through ancient copies of "The Etude", a musician's magazine from the Teens & Twenties... Brunswick took-out full-page ads for the Ultona machines...

Brunswick was right up there for a short period of time. They sold out at the right time... when radios were replacing phonographs.

Nat wrote:You Ed-heads have me just about convinced that I need a C-250!

Nat,

Just to be clear, the C 250 (renamed the C 19 after April 1919) wasn't the only "250" sized horn Diamond Disc Phonograph that was offered by the Edison company during the time period being discussed.

Also available at the time, and extant today found in varying numbers, from relative (my guess) availability to scarce or rare:

W 250 (William and Mary)
D 25 (Jacobean)
B 275 (Sheraton Inlaid)
B 375 (Louis XV)
B 450 (Louis XVI apparently redesigned to accept the "250" size horn in late 1915)
C 450 (Adam XVIII Century English - console)

And as previously stated by barnettrp21122:
Army and Navy

The preceding machines listed were available from 1915 as stated by George L. Frow in The Edison Disc Phonographs and Diamond Discs)

There were also several "Art Models" being marketed by the company, but they're not really in the same category because of their extreme rarity.

Fran

De Soto Frank wrote:I am looking forward to getting one of my two Brunswick uprights going; both have Ultona reproducers on them.

I probably would mostly be playing regular lateral discs - I only have three vertical Pathé` discs, and while the potential ability to play a Diamond-Disc on the Brunswick might be a neat party-trick, I will probably play them mostly on my C-19.

Larry - does your portable Panatrope have a metal diaphragm ?

Yes the Panatrope has a metal diaphragm. My other main cabinet phonograph is a large Upright Brunswick with the Ultona Arm.. I have found it to be my overall favorite of the standard type phonographs. The larger diaphragm an oval wooden horn seems to give it an edge in overall tonal range. A victor is probably louder but has a bit less on the bass side which acoustic recordings so badly need. One area in which the Brunswick can't compete is the reproduction of the Edison Recordings. When directly compared the Edison far out produces the realism of the instruments compared to a thinner reproduction of the Brunswick. Its not bad and probably fine if you simply are wishing to hear the selection, but it will disappoint when compared to the playback of an Edison.

Larry

Having not read this entire page before commenting previously I missed the comments about the Victor playing selection too loudly. I couldn't agree more. I always hated the way the Victors would buzz your ear drums on loud vocal passages. I learned something way back when a friend of mine was able to gain access to the Powell Hall in St. Louis in its early days as a orchestra hall after having long been a theater. We were able to place a large Oak Victor on the stage and made a number of recordings of it. What was so very obvious was the fact that those loud passages soared though out the hall while the lower ranges were of a more normal sound than heard in the home. None of that uncomfortable ear shattering sound. When I heard my first Brunswick I found to my surprise that what the Brunswick did was to recreate the performance of the record as if it were that singer on the stage. The lower sections were comfortable to hear without being over driven, yet when the vocalist reached the loud portions of the music the Brunswick was able to reproduce that without the discomfort of overdriven sound the Victrola produced.

I think Victor was well aware of this issue as in some of the "How to get the most out of your Victrola" booklets that came with the machines it was suggested that if the machine was overwhelming in your home you might wish to listen to it from the "Next" room..

larryh wrote:Having not read this entire page before commenting previously I missed the comments about the Victor playing selection too loudly. I couldn't agree more. I always hated the way the Victors would buzz your ear drums on loud vocal passages. I learned something way back when a friend of mine was able to gain access to the Powell Hall in St. Louis in its early days as a orchestra hall after having long been a theater. We were able to place a large Oak Victor on the stage and made a number of recordings of it. What was so very obvious was the fact that those loud passages soared though out the hall while the lower ranges were of a more normal sound than heard in the home. None of that uncomfortable ear shattering sound. When I heard my first Brunswick I found to my surprise that what the Brunswick did was to recreate the performance of the record as if it were that singer on the stage. The lower sections were comfortable to hear without being over driven, yet when the vocalist reached the loud portions of the music the Brunswick was able to reproduce that without the discomfort of overdriven sound the Victrola produced.

I think Victor was well aware of this issue as in some of the "How to get the most out of your Victrola" booklets that came with the machines it was suggested that if the machine was overwhelming in your home you might wish to listen to it from the "Next" room..

Use of thorn or bamboo needles will eliminate much of this effect. The result is a more balanced and natural sound.

Thanks to Fran and Bob for clarifying Diamond Disc horn sizing for me, and to Larry for more info on the Panatrope reproducer, and to all who have responded to this thread...


An interesting topic, and the responses reveal a wide variety of expectation that we have from our talking machines...


I found the comments about the Victrola "blasting you out of the room" mildly amusing... I have had that experience myself...


This thread has expanded my horizons a bit in terms of machines I will seek in the future... perhaps one of the later Brunswicks, and an Amberola or Triumph / Opera with a Cygnet to name a few...