The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I am still inclined to believe that this machine exited the factory as an Amberola. The fact that broken cylinder pieces have been recovered from the inside of the cabinet, to me, is the most prevalent evidence thus far. The Amberola works/mechanism/motor may have become damaged, thereby prompting the change to the disc mech. Of course, this, like other comments, is purely speculative.

Yeah, except as others have observed, it looks like the cylinder clips were never mounted in the drawers. Would any Amberola 1 have ever left the factory without them?

I removed a few clips from one of the drawers in one of my Amberola A1 machines. I really believe that with some fine steel wool and adequate polish, I may be able to conceal the fact that this machine has had clips for 110 years. Plus, I believe the better question is...”what are pieces of cylinder records doing in a cabinet that exited the factory as a diamond disc?”
As many others have echoed...these finds intrigue me.

PeterF wrote:Yeah, except as others have observed, it looks like the cylinder clips were never mounted in the drawers. Would any Amberola 1 have ever left the factory without them?

With out a doubt these drawers had cylinder clips installed at one time.
If you look at either side of the clip mounting screw hole you will see two small indentations in the wood.
These indentations are from the two rivets that held the clip assembly together.
As the clips were screwed to the drawer the rivets left the indentation.
Interesting thread and lots of mystery but at one time it had cylinder clips installed.

Larry Crandell

PeterF wrote:Yeah, except as others have observed, it looks like the cylinder clips were never mounted in the drawers. Would any Amberola 1 have ever left the factory without them?

Yes, actually the earliest Herzog cabinets had 2 louvers in each side, and wooden dividers in the drawers to hold the cylinders in their boxes. Only the earliest of the Herzog cabinets had them - the Pooley cabinets never did.

Hailey wrote:I am still inclined to believe that this machine exited the factory as an Amberola.

I agree. It's what happened afterward that has me perplexed. Kind of fun, though, isn't it?

George P.

So:

Summary suggests it left the factory as a 1B; but was converted to a disc machine by 1918 at the earliest. It is possible that the 1B owner decided to abandon the declining cylinder format, and had the machine converted by a local Edison dealer.

Why would they make the effort to overstamp the plate (especially since the B250 was already out of production)? And why were the drawers retained, instead of being replaced with more appropriate disc storage.?

Curiouser and curiouser...

Bill

Lucius1958 wrote:So:

Summary suggests it left the factory as a 1B; but was converted to a disc machine by 1918 at the earliest. It is possible that the 1B owner decided to abandon the declining cylinder format, and had the machine converted by a local Edison dealer.

Why would they make the effort to overstamp the plate (especially since the B250 was already out of production)? And why were the drawers retained, instead of being replaced with more appropriate disc storage.?

Curiouser and curiouser...

Bill

I would suggest that the drawers were retained primarily due to the fact that a conversion to disc storage may have required a more detailed task. Additionally, I imagine the significance of this project was primarily in the opportunity to play the disc records as opposed to storing them.

This has brought significant thought to this mystery. I wonder if this original Amberola machine was a selection on the salesroom floor of a phonograph shop...went unsold, and possibly, due to the diminished interest in cylinder machines, was converted by the shop to play and demonstrate diamond disc records???

Hailey wrote: I wonder if this original Amberola machine was a selection on the salesroom floor of a phonograph shop...went unsold, and possibly, due to the diminished interest in cylinder machines, was converted by the shop to play and demonstrate diamond disc records???

This is certainly a plausible explanation. But then there's the data plate. Why/how would the shop do that?

And I stress that this machine probably did NOT leave the factory as a 1B but rather a 1A. It's a very early cabinet that was in high demand in early 1910 when Edison couldn't get enough cabinets to complete 1As.

George P.

Heres an interesting speculation: Could someone have damaged his Diamond Disc cabinet and had the local Edison dealer order a replacement cabinet (of amberola style-because it was cheaper) from the factory?

Phonolair wrote:

PeterF wrote:Yeah, except as others have observed, it looks like the cylinder clips were never mounted in the drawers. Would any Amberola 1 have ever left the factory without them?

With out a doubt these drawers had cylinder clips installed at one time.
If you look at either side of the clip mounting screw hole you will see two small indentations in the wood.
These indentations are from the two rivets that held the clip assembly together.
As the clips were screwed to the drawer the rivets left the indentation.
Interesting thread and lots of mystery but at one time it had cylinder clips installed.

Larry Crandell

You're certainly correct about those dents Larry, I totally missed them!