The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

phonogfp wrote: Sun Feb 08, 2026 2:54 pm

Aristophane wrote: Sun Feb 08, 2026 2:04 pm Thanks much, based on your reasoning, mine could be dating from approximately April 1897.

I don't understand how you arrived at April, but I'm not in a position to refute it.

George P.

Actually I didn't, AI did it for me:

To date the **Spring Motor No. 24213**, we need to establish a chronological progression based on the production figures you provided.

1. Production Rate Analysis

Based on your data, we can determine the average monthly output for the 1896-1897 period:

March 1, 1896, to February 28, 1897 (12 months).
Volume Sold: 774 units.
Average Monthly Rate: 64.5 units/month

2. Calculating the Serial Number Gap

We need to find out how many units separate your device from the known reference point at the end of 1897:

Reference Number: 24,671 (Dated November 1897)
Target Number: 24,213
Difference: units : 24,671 - 24,213 = 458 units

3. Estimating the Date

By applying the rate of 64.5 units per month to "count back" from November 1897:

Counting back approximately **7 months** from the end of November 1897: 458/64,5 = 7,1 months

1. October
2. September
3. August
4. July
5. June
6. May
7. **April**

Conclusion

Serial number **24213** would likely date to **April 1897**.

**Historical Note:** This calculation assumes linear production. However, production at the Edison factories often accelerated during this era. If the 1897 cadence was higher than the 1896 average, the machine might actually date to **May 1897**. Nevertheless, April remains the most statistically sound estimate based on your data.

If you ever come to Paris and visit the Eiffel Tower, you will find Gustave Eiffel's office with a guest that you all know!

Aristophane wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 5:30 am Nevertheless, April remains the most statistically sound estimate based on your data.

My data of "774 machines" included Spring Motors AND Homes.

George P.

phonogfp wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 6:21 am

Aristophane wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 5:30 am Nevertheless, April remains the most statistically sound estimate based on your data.

My data of "774 machines" included Spring Motors AND Homes.

George P.

Oups... That complicates things!

Aristophane wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 5:37 am If you ever come to Paris and visit the Eiffel Tower, you will find Gustave Eiffel's office with a guest that you all know!

Here's a special souvenir from Edison's visit to the Eiffel Tower.

TinfoilPhono wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 11:19 am

Aristophane wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 5:37 am If you ever come to Paris and visit the Eiffel Tower, you will find Gustave Eiffel's office with a guest that you all know!

Here's a special souvenir from Edison's visit to the Eiffel Tower.

Waoo, nice ! Thomas Edison and Gustave Eiffel meet in Paris during the 1889 World's Fair. Visitors to both stands admire the American scientist's inventions in the fields of electricity, telephony, and the phonograph.

In honor of Thomas Edison, Gustave Eiffel organized a champagne dinner on September 10, 1889, at the Brébant restaurant located on the first floor of the Exposition's main attraction. His daughter Claire and Mina Edison were among the guests, as were the main engineers who had participated in the construction of the tower.

Gustave Eiffel had set up a private apartment on the third floor of the tower to welcome his distinguished guests for intimate receptions. After the meal, Thomas Edison was invited to enjoy cognac and cigars. The two engineers took a particular liking to each other. On this occasion, the American scientist gave Eiffel a Class M “show” phonograph similar to the one featured in his exhibition stand. This scene, reconstructed by the Société Nouvelle d'Exploitation de la Tour Eiffel, can still be seen on the third floor of the tower.

Gustave Eiffel then recorded a dozen wax cylinders on his phonograph at his home, accompanied by his family and friends. These cylinders, recorded in 1891, are the oldest sound recordings of French personalities. Donated to the Musée d'Orsay in 1981 by Gustave Eiffel's descendants, they are now preserved by the Audiovisual Department of the Bibliothèque nationale de France.

Not to criticize unfairly, but I would hope that any time AI is used in a reply to any post here at TMF, the person posting it would first be clear that the reply is derived from AI. AI is not infallible and it has become too easy for people to use it unethically. Please understand that I don't mean any disrespect to anyone.

fran604g wrote: Sun Feb 15, 2026 4:36 am Not to criticize unfairly, but I would hope that any time AI is used in a reply to any post here at TMF, the person posting it would first be clear that the reply is derived from AI. AI is not infallible and it has become too easy for people to use it unethically. Please understand that I don't mean any disrespect to anyone.

I don't take your comment as disrespectful at all, quite the contrary! You raise an essential point: transparency.

It's true that AI is not infallible and that errors are as human as they are artificial. I completely agree with you on the ethical dimension you mention: it's not about using this tool to “simulate” expertise that we don't have, but rather to use it as a boosted search engine.

For my part, AI saves me valuable time on tedious tasks—such as searching through hard-to-access databases or performing complex calculations. This is undoubtedly a slight professional bias on my part, wanting to automate analytical rigor!

It's a technical aid, but the final judgment and rigorous verification must always remain in human hands to ensure the integrity of our exchanges on TMF. If I ever entrust my calculations to an algorithm again, I will be sure to indicate this at the top of the page so that you know who you are dealing with: me or the machine.

That said, my English is not good enough for me to do without AI for translation Have a great weekend!

Here is a close up of the Class M that Edison gave to Eiffel

Aristophane wrote: Sun Feb 15, 2026 7:28 am

fran604g wrote: Sun Feb 15, 2026 4:36 am Not to criticize unfairly, but I would hope that any time AI is used in a reply to any post here at TMF, the person posting it would first be clear that the reply is derived from AI. AI is not infallible and it has become too easy for people to use it unethically. Please understand that I don't mean any disrespect to anyone.

I don't take your comment as disrespectful at all, quite the contrary! You raise an essential point: transparency.

It's true that AI is not infallible and that errors are as human as they are artificial. I completely agree with you on the ethical dimension you mention: it's not about using this tool to “simulate” expertise that we don't have, but rather to use it as a boosted search engine.

For my part, AI saves me valuable time on tedious tasks—such as searching through hard-to-access databases or performing complex calculations. This is undoubtedly a slight professional bias on my part, wanting to automate analytical rigor!

It's a technical aid, but the final judgment and rigorous verification must always remain in human hands to ensure the integrity of our exchanges on TMF. If I ever entrust my calculations to an algorithm again, I will be sure to indicate this at the top of the page so that you know who you are dealing with: me or the machine.

That said, my English is not good enough for me to do without AI for translation Have a great weekend!

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response. Congratulations also for your lovely Spring Motor Phonograph! You've been very gracious for sharing it with us.

Best,
Francis