The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Since September 1897 and before starting a syndicate, William Barry Owen traded in Europe in his own right - as an unincorporated business. He purchased goods through the National Gramophone Co. paying Berliner a royalty amounting to 15% of the retail selling price. Owen bought his goods at 20% of retail, and sold them to retailers at 70%. This left him with a gross profit of 50%, out of which he paid Berliner his 15% royalty.

To ensure retail price maintenance, he sold directly through an approved dealer network. The London branch of The American Talking Machine Co. was one of the approved dealers. Machines and records were sent from New York by Frederick Marion Prescott, who was appointed sole exporter by Frank Seaman's National Gramophone Co.

This business scheme was maintained when Owen and the Liverpool merchant Edgar Storey formed a small private trading syndicate, called The Gramophone Co. in March 1898.

Thanks - that makes perfect sense, and I wasn't aware of some of those details.

George P.

When we were doing this thread ages ago I wanted to post a pic of the form of the last seven inch Berliners sold in Canada( to 1905, I think) In the midst of the Great Record Sort of 2010, I found it. They're really too late to be called Berliners per se, but they're interesting all the same. I forget if anyone else posted a pic of these or not,I know there was a pic of the 10 inch label, but here is the 7 inch . I think this is probably a Consolidated Talking Machine Co master. I don't have the Victor books . Anyone??

Jim

I have the exact same title on a US 7 inch Victor pressing...it's #1505, if that helps...

EDIT, just checked EDVR and it is in fact the same issue, recorded in July 1902 and another (take 3) was redone in October.

Sean

LSG,is that label you posted supposed to be the last Canadian labeled 7"??.I ask because I have a few brown 7" record that have the HMV on the label.I will toss a couple into this thread.The 3.5" Berliner is the only known one in private hands as is the UK Berliner of Belle Davies.

You're right: that that isn't the last 7 inch label but it's the last one that I would call a Berliner label in the early sense: no His Master Voice and with the little brass insert at the spindle hole. And I said, even this one is really too late to be strictly called a Berliner. As Sean points out this is a Victor recording.
Jim

Jim,
I see what you mean.However,being Canadian they are all good to me.... .Here are two of the last type of 7" label that I know of.Does anyone know if these are also from Victor masters???.Strange how they labeled one "concert".By this time they were calling 10" records "concert".

WDC wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:26 am Well, to my personal opinion, Berliner discs are far beyond the average sound quality of a period cylinder record, although their surface speed is up to twice as fast as the one of a standard cylinder.

Nevertheless, that primitive recording technique is what I do find somewhat fascinating with them.

Here's [one of my] little stock of Berliner discs:


If anyone can help to date this? It does not appear in any discography I could find.

This record is listed in the "Berliner Discography" by Paul Charosh, but as you say, without a specific date - just "recorded in NY."
It was probably made in 1897.

Allen

My saddest tale to tell, at least in so far as talking machines are concerned. Several years ago I went to a local auction. Pictures were uploaded on the web but not everything; simply too much to photograph. Piles and piles of stuff, most of it crap in my opinion. But there was a stack of Berliners--eight or nine. The stack included one Little Wonder record as well. I knew at the time that Berliners had some value but I thought it might be negligible if the records were unplayable. (In those days I was much more averse to risk than I am now and wanted everything dirt cheap.) The auctioneer didn't have a clue and started the bidding at $1. There were three of us bidding, of which one dropped out at $10. So I and another bidded against each other. I dropped out at $100 ; the kid took them.

Those Berliners were, I think, the same size as that Little Wonder, which would make them five-inch records. At the time I knew nothing about five-inch versus seven-inch records. What makes me think my memory is wrong is that all the titles hand engraved on the disks were in English, not German. Perhaps I'm wrong, but aren't all five-inch Berliners engraved in German? This makes me think my memory is faulty about the size of the disks.

In any case, the kid got a bargain for $110. I have not seen any Berliners since then. And I wonder what he did with them.

John

I probably have about 30 or so Berliner records ranging from 1896 to 1900 (not counting a handful of reproduction ones). Berliners are some of my favorite records to collect and I pick them up whenever I get a chance.