The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

JerryVan wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:09 am loupe

I debated as to whether to use this very specialised word or not. It is not one in common use. I was worried it might be mistaken as a typo for toupee or something.

JerryVan wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:09 am I dunno

I don't know either.

Out of all the vintage needles that came with my gramophone in a largish jumbled rusty mass, there were none with bad tips, except from age-related corrosion. Presumably these were tumble polished, too.

So what's up with new needles?

And as I said, most of the problems with the defective needles in this current package seem to be malformed plating.

You have basically re-discovered why experienced collectors here don't buy casual needles, but refer to well known providers who only offer highly polished needles, like member Soundgen which I believe 90% of European collectors refer to.

Lah Ca wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:54 pm

JerryVan wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:09 am loupe

I debated as to whether to use this very specialised word or not. It is not one in common use. I was worried it might be mistaken as a typo for toupee or something.

An understandable concern!

I finally printed out the 1916 copyright owner's manual for Aeolian-Vocalian gramophones and read it cover to cover, rather than just skimming through the jpeg files it is broken up into.

I found a paragraph, which advises the use of only size and type of needle with a record, saying that the use of multiple sizes and types will damage a record more quickly.

The was recommendation is based upon "exhaustive tests." What the "exhaustive tests" were is not related. The manual as a whole (and the 1914/15 Aeolian-Vocalian catalogue) is given to greatly hyperbolic prose, and as such, its use of the adjective "exhaustive" might be somewhat suspect.

Nonetheless the claim is interesting.

When repairing the lower cabinet of my AV machine, I found some very interesting old needles in an inaccessible area of the lower cabinet.

I think someone spilled a needle tin in the distant past because a large number of them had not been used. Most of these, unfortunately, were too rusty to be salvaged.

They are made of a darker carbon steel that looks like it has been Damascened (lamination welded) but the unusual marks along the length of the shaft are more probably striations from the wire extrusion die. The needles are definitely not tumble polished because the shafts are not polished, at all The tips, however, have an extremely fine high grade polish, far better than anything else I have seen so far outside of high-end jewellery. They are very large needles and just barely fit in my AV. They are also very resonant, very acoustically live. When you drop one on a plate to hear how it sounds, it is much livelier than a new loud tone needle.

They sound amazing in play. I am so sad that only six of them were recoverable.

Pictures, please!

I believe I've seen bluish needles as you describe, in the past... I'll check my pot of used special needles, maybe I still keep some of those... Never knew who was the maker, though.

Marco Gilardetti wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 3:42 am Pictures, please!

I have no means of taking pictures which show the interesting microscopic features which can be seen through a 20x loupe. And my Android phone is a cheap one.

Here is a picture of one of the needles next to the shaft of a 5/64" drill bit for comparison. It looks as if it is of larger diameter than the drill bit, but it isn't. The drill bit won't fit in my AV, but the needle will.

Inigo wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:51 am I believe I've seen bluish needles as you describe, in the past... I'll check my pot of used special needles, maybe I still keep some of those... Never knew who was the maker, though.

The needles do not look as if any bluing has been done to them. They are plain, dark greyish-approaching-black carbon steel. The needles have pinch cut ends, but seemingly pinched only on one side. They are magnetic.

What are trailer needles? What purpose do they serve?

Lah Ca wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:44 pm What are trailer needles? What purpose do they serve?

These needles were advertised as imposing less wear to record due to the lower angle between needle tip and groove. As far as I know they were only popular in England, although made by Swiss Laubscher. I have some new old stock boxes of them, and in my experience there is no noticeable benefit to records. But I only used them once and threw them away.