The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:44 pm**

It's quite a sad story. There is however a complete write up of the whole event. I can't locate my copy. However, I'm sure one of our members has it also. The write up goes on to tell how difficult it was for the HMV crew to transport and then set up truck loads of gear. It was documented that Will did indeed (by accident) inhale some gas from this very attack. He was died by December of that year 1918. Fred, I believe was off elsewhere. I have to find the write up because I think it mentioned that Will was the real brains as a recording engineer. However, I need to re-read the story again.
The reason the recording was even made was simple......the war was just about to close and Will thought it was now or never to capture for posterity the sound of war. Had he only known there would be another just a few years later.....I doubt he would have sacrificed his life for this. 42 is a young age to go even in those days.

I hope someone like George P. can add the write up on this very historical piece of recording history.

BTW, you are not alone. In recent years, some are now questioning the authenticity of the recording. Some say that Will's recording did not turn out as he had hope. Then returned back to England and made a studio copy of the battle. However, there is no way to prove this now and many military experts claim the sounds are genuine and not fake.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:03 pm**

The sound reminds me of our old .60 mortars firing.
Can we be sure that the "shelling" was by cannons?

estott wrote:I've wanted to hear the shelling record- could you or someone put it on youtube?

OK, I found it online: http://acenturyofnovember.com/html/audi ... rdment.php

Not meaning any ill to Mr. Gaisberg it sounds entirely false to me- like a stroke on a bass drum and a party noisemaker. I can not believe it is real even though he says it is. Having been quite near to a black powder cannon being fired I can tell you in not only makes a tremendous noise but a sharp physical concussion. I'd expect that the needle would have jumped right off the wax, but this recording is not only clear it is TOO clear.

If I am doubting and cynical it is because a great deal of fakery was passed off as the real thing, even by the government. Crowds wept at British government sanctioned documentary THE BATTLE OF THE SOMME which contained scenes of men dying in the trenches. One prominent woman said "Now I know what my son died for". Well, all the footage was fake, shot at a training school in the UK Midlands. I can be tolerant and forgive it- this was material people really wanted to see, and I suppose it gave many of them some comfort.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:07 pm**

Here is the story of the gas shell record, cited from the Hillandale News, Nr. 36, p. 106:

On 8th October 1918 William Gaisberg and a team of three others left Charing Cross en route for France planned to make a recording of the Royal Garrison Artillery heavy gas shell attack on the German lines at Lille as it transpired, just before the town was entered by the British. On the drive from Boulogne, a good deal of it through desolated countryside only just vacated by the retreating Germans, they were issued with tin helmets and given instruction in the use of gas masks. A short distance from Lille they reached a row of shattered cottages in one of which the Heavy Siege Battery of the R.G A had set up its Head Quarters.

On his return to London Mr. Gaisberg wrote;- "In the wrecked kitchen we unpacked our recording machine and made our preparations before getting directly behind a battery of great 4-5 inch guns and 6 inch howitzers, camouflaged until they looked at close quarters like giant insects. Here, the machine could well catch the finer sounds of the ‘singing’ the’ whine’ and the ‘scream’ of the shells and the terrific reports when they left the guns. A satisfactory recording was obtained and at dusk the equipment was packed away and the return journey to London was begun, The team and their equipment arrived safely home only fifty—two hours from the time of their departure from Charing Cross."
[...]
Perhaps the feelings it aroused at that time can best be conveyed by an extract from a letter by Major C J C Street, M C of the Royal Garrison Artillery. It was published in the ‘Voice’ for December 1918.
"One can hear the whole process of bombardment in its minutest detail, for it must be remembered that this record was made upon the actual battlefield, and depicts a short period of the ordinary life of a Battery the order to load comes the clang of the hundred—pound shell as it is rammed home into the breech of the big howitzer then the roar in response to the word ‘Fire’, and, lastly the whine of the shell as it speeds on its way. So fine is the recording that when Number Three fires a round, one can detect the characteristic note that reveals the fact. By what other method could so vivid a picture be conveyed? [...]"

End of quote.

The HMV recording ledgers show that at least two successful recordings were taken on 9th October 1918, referred to as "Gas shells. Big Siege Guns", and processed on 18th October 1918. It seems that only one of these, mx. 3479af, was issued, while mx. 3480af was held as reserve.

William Conrad Gaisberg died on 5th November 1918.

Because of the Gas Shell Bombardment recording in my collection I bought a book about the sounds of guns and bullets in World War I, published in 1925. I haven't analysed it yet. The authors collected witness statements from German and French soldiers.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:13 pm**

ewok wrote:The sound reminds me of our old .60 mortars firing.
Can we be sure that the "shelling" was by cannons?

estott wrote:I've wanted to hear the shelling record- could you or someone put it on youtube?

OK, I found it online: http://acenturyofnovember.com/html/audi ... rdment.php

Not meaning any ill to Mr. Gaisberg it sounds entirely false to me- like a stroke on a bass drum and a party noisemaker. I can not believe it is real even though he says it is. Having been quite near to a black powder cannon being fired I can tell you in not only makes a tremendous noise but a sharp physical concussion. I'd expect that the needle would have jumped right off the wax, but this recording is not only clear it is TOO clear.

If I am doubting and cynical it is because a great deal of fakery was passed off as the real thing, even by the government. Crowds wept at British government sanctioned documentary THE BATTLE OF THE SOMME which contained scenes of men dying in the trenches. One prominent woman said "Now I know what my son died for". Well, all the footage was fake, shot at a training school in the UK Midlands. I can be tolerant and forgive it- this was material people really wanted to see, and I suppose it gave many of them some comfort.

I wasn't intending to be technical when I wrote cannon. I think that a mortar would make a pretty loud sound as well.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:36 pm**

Lets just put this one down as disputed- there are opinions on both sides.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:41 pm**

Thanks Starkton. Good to see back on the forum. I meant to type November but hit December as Will's month of death.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:47 pm**

Another version of the King Edward VIII abdication speech:

: King Edward Label.jpg (480.05 KiB) Viewed 2902 times

I Can Hear It Now Vol.1:

: IMG_0007.JPG (116.6 KiB) Viewed 2902 times

I Can Hear It Now Vol.2

: IMG_0015.JPG (126.4 KiB) Viewed 2902 times

Jim

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:55 pm**

phonojim wrote:
I Can Hear It Now Vol.1:
IMG_0007.JPG
I Can Hear It Now Vol.2
IMG_0015.JPG

There are lots of interesting historical recordings in it, but a lot of them, especially the earlier ones, are recreations and not the actual recordings.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:38 pm**

The recordings on these two albums are original as stated by Columbia; all from radio news recordings, off-the-air recordings including shortwave, newsreel soundtracks and possibly other material. Columbia did produce a third album in this group which covered the period from about 1918 to 1932. Much, if not all of the material in that album was stated by Columbia to have been dramatized for the occasion. The two that I show here are completely derived from original sources (so stated on the album covers).

Jim

Moderator: Please eliminate my guest post of this. I didn't realize the computer had signed me out. Sorry.

J.

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:04 pm**

estott wrote:
ewok wrote:The sound reminds me of our old .60 mortars firing.
Can we be sure that the "shelling" was by cannons?

estott wrote:I've wanted to hear the shelling record- could you or someone put it on youtube?

OK, I found it online: http://acenturyofnovember.com/html/audi ... rdment.php

Not meaning any ill to Mr. Gaisberg it sounds entirely false to me- like a stroke on a bass drum and a party noisemaker. I can not believe it is real even though he says it is. Having been quite near to a black powder cannon being fired I can tell you in not only makes a tremendous noise but a sharp physical concussion. I'd expect that the needle would have jumped right off the wax, but this recording is not only clear it is TOO clear.

If I am doubting and cynical it is because a great deal of fakery was passed off as the real thing, even by the government. Crowds wept at British government sanctioned documentary THE BATTLE OF THE SOMME which contained scenes of men dying in the trenches. One prominent woman said "Now I know what my son died for". Well, all the footage was fake, shot at a training school in the UK Midlands. I can be tolerant and forgive it- this was material people really wanted to see, and I suppose it gave many of them some comfort.
I wasn't intending to be technical when I wrote cannon. I think that a mortar would make a pretty loud sound as well.

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