Victor VTLA (XX) Victrola the Twentieth

[Curt A]

Wayne...I bet it would be for sale if we worked out a deal for a certain item that sits in my house!!

What can I say.... .

You could say what it is...

[Victor VII]

Sorry that my replies can only be written at night after work—now prolonging this chain longer than I probably should. Custodial responsibility is not my idea; it’s a general principle implicitly understood by many dealers and collectors in other areas of fine art and collecting. It means striving for a standard--trying to maintain original appearance and/or patina of age when caring and restoring antiques and collectibles. Of course, striving for original appearance and patina can be carried out in different ways by different people, but at least there is a unifying good faith focus on originality and patina as a principle for treating important objects. That good faith focus discourages arbitrary embellishment or adding piz-azz for the sake of commerce.
There are dealers in fine art and antiques who are extremely meticulous in maintaining originality and patina. They vet and represent their objects and maintain them in a way that those dealers later are mentioned in the provenance when the items come to auction. Therefore, their stewardship can add credibility and value to the objects that cross through their hands.
Many of Raphael’s comments on this chain are about how he has been slighted rather than dealing with the raised topic of sensitive restoration. I am truly sorry if he feels hurt--never my intention. Again, my comments might be viewed differently in their much broader context. Still, when he praises a machine on his website as “enhanced to as-new condition” and there is evidence that the piece is not as it would have been as new--the question remains what his attitude toward maintaining originality and patina? To answer to his suspicion, I have not fallen victim to the attitudes of other collectors (although I am proud to share the attitudes of many I have met). Having collected phonographs for 30 years, having lent and donated art and antiques to museums, and having curated several exhibits myself, my thoughts are my own.

[ColoradoPhonograf]

Here is a photo of a machine with its original finish. It does feature the added gold carvings on each side of the front doors. The serial number is 8635.

[gramophone78]

Here is a photo of a machine with its original finish. It does feature the added gold carvings on each side of the front doors. The serial number is 8635.

DSCN0584.JPG

Thanks for posting this. Based on the serial number....perhaps some of the higher numbered models had the extra gilding..??. I have also noticed, more of these higher numbered machines are without gilding than with.

Of course this is all speculation on my part.....as my observations are based a so few examples.

[Skihawx]

Here is a photo of a machine with its original finish. It does feature the added gold carvings on each side of the front doors. The serial number is 8635.

For what it is worth, I like the subtle gold decorations so much better.
Mine is 5792 and while the gold is a little dull I wouldn't think of touching it.

[gramophone78]

Here is a photo of a machine with its original finish. It does feature the added gold carvings on each side of the front doors. The serial number is 8635.

For what it is worth, I like the subtle gold decorations so much better.
Mine is 5792 and while the gold is a little dull I wouldn't think of touching it.

Me too!!!. I think it looks great. I also agree...."while the gold is a little dull, I wouldn't think of touching it".

Can I ask....is your #5792 with the extra gilding..??. Mine is #5165 with gilding...However, no extra gilding.

[Skihawx]

Can I ask....is your #5792 with the extra gilding..??. Mine is #5165 with gilding...However, no extra gilding.

Nope, no extra gilding. I have not seen one in person with the extra gilding.
I was at the auction in Maine and I think it has nicer gilding than yours or mine.
I have a few pictures I may post.

I just added a picture I took at the Maine auction. I think the gilding looks very good.
But not spot on perfect.

[Raphael]

For those of you brave and patient enough to have slogged through the many pages of this post, I would like to add a post-mortem of sorts. My wife and I have thoroughly enjoyed this beautiful phonograph for a few years now. But yesterday I delivered it to a new owner, who was absolutely thrilled with it. Since he was only about 200 miles away, it was easier for me to deliver in person rather than to ship it, which also gave me the opportunity to see his collection of Victors, records, etc. and of course meet the gentleman in person. I showed him pictures of the XX before restoration and he stated that he never, ever would have bought it in that condition.

So, we have found a good, appreciative home for the restored XX, and I still have Curt’s other example as well, which has now been moved to my living room.

I’m off to Boston tomorrow on a delivery mission. All restored, high-end stuff, some of which is too delicate to ship, hence my having to drive 1500 miles. The buyer is a good friend and customer of mine, and he may have the country’s largest collection of the type of stuff I am delivering. But he too won’t have anything with a chip, dent or scratch.


Raphael