playing Columbia black wax cylinders

[FloridaClay]

I was thinking of bidding up some black Columbia cylinders. My experience so far is all with Edison cylinders. Could the Columbias be played on my Edison Standard D?

Clay

[52089]

Provided you have a 2-minute reproducer (Model C or equivalent), yes, they will play just fine. All 2-minute cylinders have the same 100-threads-per-inch design regardless of manufacturer.

[kirtley2012]

However some columbias are softer than edisons

[HisMastersVoice]

I would not play a Columbia 2-min black wax cylinder with a model C reproducer. It wears them out extremely fast, sometimes in just a few plays. The evidence comes in the form of a brownish dust all over the cylinder after playing. They are indeed softer than Edison 2min black wax.

[edisonphonoworks]

I have stated this many times, as someone who makes metallic soaps. The part that gets me about Columbia black wax cylinders is that yes, they were designated to play at the time on any two minute Graphophone or Phonograph.. However knowing the formula, of them, which collectors do not seem to grasp is, they are in fact nothing more than the same ingredients of the regular Columbia Brown wax, octadecanoic acid hydrated aluminum and ceresine and lamp black to color them black. This is the same components as of brown wax. They were dyed black as a psychological effect which the mind thinks that a black wax cylinder is more durable. It would be the same as if I wanted to make my recordings seem more durable than a brown wax record, all I would have to do is add lots of lampback to my recording blanks black and you would not hesitate to play them with a model C over and over, than if I left them in there brown state even though the wax is not chemically different. In fact the Sears brown wax Columbia molded records are indeed harder than their regular black wax,. take a really moldy and unplayable one,of each and shave it, and try to record on it, you will not have much luck recording on the brown Columbia Molded record as the black wax one! I had done it, and found this to be true. . In fact in some experiments I found that Columbia black wax will combine fine with brown wax, and when combined with Edison molded wax, it will cause a chemical reaction, and separate between the Edison and Columbia wax, and not combine. I also found with the fingernail test that the black wax Columbia record in the photograph was even softer than the brown wax blank that I make. making the Columbia black wax record softer than an Edison brown wax record. In fact this record Sun Rise At the Zoo by Ada Jones record no. 33216 has almost no detail to the sound left, you can tell in the photo the grooves are very worn. Also if you look at a moldy record you can tell there is something different between the Edison and Columbia black wax, as the Edison record will mold with a reddish haze and the Columbia will have a more whitish appearance, that you get when Brown Wax molds. The added components in Edison records makes them chemically mold differently.

Edison black wax, however has addition components of carnuaba wax, Zinc and Copper, pine tar, and sometimes ebonite,, making Edison moulded records many times harder than Columbia, in fact you can shave Columbia cylinders off with the shaver on a phonograph or an Ediphone shaver and you can make a recording on them. if you attempt to shave an Edison moulded record you will wind up with a torn, or a surface full of holes, as it is too hard for the knife, and only if you feed the head across very slowly can you shave a gold molded record. I think the pressure of a lyric is less than a model C, Yes Columbia do wear out.

[HisMastersVoice]

I have stated this many times, as someone who makes metallic soaps. The part that gets me about Columbia black wax cylinders is that yes, they were designated to play at the time on any two minute Graphophone or Phonograph.. However knowing the formula, of them, which collectors do not seem to grasp is, they are in fact nothing more than the same ingredients of the regular Columbia Brown wax, octadecanoic acid hydrated aluminum and ceresine and lamp black to color them black. This is the same components as of brown wax. They were dyed black as a psychological effect which the mind thinks that a black wax cylinder is more durable. It would be the same as if I wanted to make my recordings seem more durable than a brown wax record, all I would have to do is add lots of lampback to my recording blanks black and you would not hesitate to play them with a model C over and over, than if I left them in there brown state even though the wax is not chemically different. In fact the Sears brown wax Columbia molded records are indeed harder than their regular black wax,. take a really moldy and unplayable one,of each and shave it, and try to record on it, you will not have much luck recording on the brown Columbia Molded record as the black wax one! I had done it, and found this to be true. . In fact in some experiments I found that Columbia black wax will combine fine with brown wax, and when combined with Edison molded wax, it will cause a chemical reaction, and separate between the Edison and Columbia wax, and not combine. I also found with the fingernail test that the black wax Columbia record in the photograph was even softer than the brown wax blank that I make. making the Columbia black wax record softer than an Edison brown wax record. In fact this record Sun Rise At the Zoo by Ada Jones record no. 33216 has almost no detail to the sound left, you can tell in the photo the grooves are very worn. Also if you look at a moldy record you can tell there is something different between the Edison and Columbia black wax, as the Edison record will mold with a reddish haze and the Columbia will have a more whitish appearance, that you get when Brown Wax molds. The added components in Edison records makes them chemically mold differently.

Edison black wax, however has addition components of carnuaba wax, Zinc and Copper, pine tar, and sometimes ebonite,, making Edison moulded records many times harder than Columbia, in fact you can shave Columbia cylinders off with the shaver on a phonograph or an Ediphone shaver and you can make a recording on them. if you attempt to shave an Edison moulded record you will wind up with a torn, or a surface full of holes, as it is too hard for the knife, and only if you feed the head across very slowly can you shave a gold molded record. I think the pressure of a lyric is less than a model C, Yes Columbia do wear out.

What he said!

For the record, I play them with a Columbia floating reproducer with no problem.

[edisonphonoworks]

I molded a blank yesterday, and shaved it to a little above the usable thickness,. This is an example of the regular brown wax formulation that has been cooked a long time, you will note it certainly very brown, and if it is cooked for another hour, it will be black. You can see the sheen of the Columbia record, is a very brown, and almost matches my very dark brown blank. I also have photos to show, how the same formula, can make cylinders from white to very dark brown. These are some higher resolution photos of my new blanks. but my thought is that Columbia black wax is similar to the brown wax.

[WDC]

Well explained, Shawn! It does absolutely match my observation with Columbia black wax cylinders too. But I do have reservations against the Model C, or to be more precise, the doorknob stylus shape in general.

Also with Edison black wax cylinders, I could almost always see some very little swarf taken off the record. And I am not talking about a worn or otherwise defective stylus. Such a shaped stylus will cause significantly more wear than the earlier bullet stylus as known from the floating and Model B reproducers. The doorknob literally files down a dynamic groove, thus causing distortion.

And that is the reason, why especially Edison 2-minute cylinders with great dynamics are often found with highly distorted grooves, such as marches, xylophone and opera selections.

I nowadays always try to avoid a doorknob stylus with any kind of wax for acoustic playback.

[kirtley2012]

Well explained, Shawn! It does absolutely match my observation with Columbia black wax cylinders too. But I do have reservations against the Model C, or to be more precise, the doorknob stylus shape in general.

Also with Edison black wax cylinders, I could almost always see some very little swarf taken off the record. And I am not talking about a worn or otherwise defective stylus. Such a shaped stylus will cause significantly more wear than the earlier bullet stylus as known from the floating and Model B reproducers. The doorknob literally files down a dynamic groove, thus causing distortion.

And that is the reason, why especially Edison 2-minute cylinders with great dynamics are often found with highly distorted grooves, such as marches, xylophone and opera selections.

I nowadays always try to avoid a doorknob stylus with any kind of wax for acoustic playback.

So, for my model C reproducer currently missing it's doorknob stylus, would it be best to replace it with a bullet stylus?

[WDC]

So, for my model C reproducer currently missing it's doorknob stylus, would it be best to replace it with a bullet stylus?

I once had one that had a bullet sapphire attached (not original, of course). It played just fine and I didn't have any of these "shaving" problems with it.

And someone had glued (some epoxy) the metal ball from a ballpoint pen on top of the bar. That did work quite well too. I couldn't find any issues with this either.

I only use a doorknob one indestructible and new cylinders, but never on old wax.