The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

A good friend sent me a photo of the remnants left of a Paillard hot-air machine. Basically just the Stirling engine has survived. The machine was first discovered in 1946 "complete" but apart. When the current owner went back some time later to buy the machine.......only the Stirling engine remained.

The case and other components were tossed out.... .

Over the years the man made the machine into a functioning crapophone type machine. Such a shame to see a rare machine ruined. However, it is also nice to see the engine saved and used in a correct way to show others this very interesting form of technology. And for those that don't know how a Paillard "hot-air" gramophone should look like......

It is a shame, but at this point the engine is just a mechanical curiosity (unless someone has an incomplete Palliard) and he can do what he likes as long as he doesn't damage the actual motor. It should be possible to built it into something more pleasing though.

Here's one that was at Union many years ago, then offered on eBay. Obviously the original cabinet burned up but someone did a decent job of making a working display that really showed off the motor. Not at all original, but a good use of the original mechanism, and in operating condition.

Not familiar with these. I gather there was a burner of some sort that provided the energy for spinning the turntable?

C;au

FloridaClay wrote:Not familiar with these. I gather there was a burner of some sort that provided the energy for spinning the turntable?

C;au

There is an alcohol burner which heats a Stirling engine. Hot air engines were relatively popular in Europe before the widespread introduction of electricity- I've even seen a small mechanical piano powered by one, and floor standing fans powered by a kerosene lamp were relatively common in eastern countries: one could argue that the hot air from the fan canceled out the fan stream, but these were used in locations where the air was already quite hot.

I have a Stirling engine-powered fan, made by Jost in the early 20th century. It works amazingly well. Yes, it does draw some heat from the burner through the blades, but the amount is small in relation to the air circulated by the very large diameter blades. It's one fan which is more effective if you are several feet away than if you're directly in front of it.

Jost fans were made in Germany and were particularly popular in India, though not limited to that market. There was an American maker of Stirling fans, Lake Breeze, who was in business well into the 1920s. They made both floor-standing and table-top fans. Those are not as visually appealing since the motors are cruder in construction, and enclosed within a covered body. The Jost is something of a work of art.

I've always enjoyed the irony of using heat to generate cool air, but then again there are propane refrigerators so the concept is not as oxymoronic as it might seem.

For those that have never seen such a machine, a little history. Paillard made three hot-air models. A #205 with a walnut case and glass panels (see photo in my last post) approx. 12 known. A model #206 with a oak carved case (in my collection) 1 known. Last, a model #207 that was in a black metal perforated case ( 1 known)
Paillard also made a #208 that was designed to spin a large table and used to rotate a display in a store window (1 known).
Here is a YouTube video I made of our machine and some photos.
I hope you enjoy.

http://youtu.be/Ssp3XxPESGo

TinfoilPhono wrote:I've always enjoyed the irony of using heat to generate cool air, but then again there are propane refrigerators so the concept is not as oxymoronic as it might seem.

I have a 1950 Servel gas (propane, in my case) refrigerator in my camp in the Adirondacks (no electric service). The gas refrigerator works on the principle of evaporation/condensation, with hydrogen gas, water, and ammonia circulating in a sealed system. A small burner fueled by propane aids in the circulation. Alternatively, the heat source could be a natural gas or kerosene burner, or an electric element. Dual propane-electric refrigerators are made today for use in trailers, RVs, and motor homes. They have no moving parts, IOW no compressors or motors, and are completely silent in operation. I wish I had had one last week for Hurricane Sandy!

I don't know anything about Stirling (Sterling?) engines, but I assume the fan and the phonograph are activated by heated air rising in currents; the fan merely moves the air, but doesn't really cool it. This is a different principle than the gas fridge, although I guess there is a relationship since the moving air promotes evaporation of sweat, resulting in a cooling sensation.

If you Google Stirling engines (that's the correct spelling) you'll find a ton of info on how they work. It's a complicated system of recycling the same enclosed air by heating it then transferring it to a cooling chamber with an internal piston to drop temperature, then heating it again. It's remarkably complex yet fundamentally simple. In basic terms, it's considered an external combustion engine. It doesn't work by evaporation so it's nothing like propane refrigeration -- there are lots of moving parts.

Sorry, my bad. I over looked the typo in my first post. It is now corrected..."Stirling". Sorry Rev. Robert Stirling.... .