The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Just started exploring the world of the early vertical cut labels ("Phono-Cut" etc.)and find these fascinating as all I was aware of were Pathé and Diamond Discs. Just from Wikiland....it states that Lyric (Lyraphone Co.) discs were vertical cut only for about the first year or two of their production from 1917-21, so 1917 and some or all of 1918 perhaps. How can one tell the difference between these and their later lateral cut ones? Any mention of Newark, NJ vice New York would peg it as a later disc, anything else? I'm hoping there is something unique that could be gleaned from an auction photo that would say "Vertical"....any discography of these out there? The labels don't seem to indicate which they are. Thanks in advance.....hopefully this is not thorougly discussed in an earlier post. John

The information you seek may be "out there", but not conveniently grouped all together in a tidy package. A few websites that I have found useful are: http://www.78discography.com/ and http://www.tedstaunton.com

There were a number of record companies in the US that toyed with vertical recording for a year or two before some basic patents ran out, breaking Victor and Columbia domination of the lateral market. The companies that survived changed to lateral. There were also a number of European vertical-cut brands, many in France.

If the labels themselves provide no clue, sometimes their matrix or catalog number will. If you can actually inspect a record, a powerful magnifying glass or a microscope will reveal the type of modulation.

A few American vertical brands I have bought or seen on eBay: Aeolian Vocalion, Sonora, Operaphone, Phono-Cut, Par-O-Ket, Brunswick (Pathé), Rex and Okeh. No doubt I have overlooked many more. Some of those were cut with a fine groove and played with steel needles instead of sapphire points and were poorly recorded compared to the Pathés and Edisons.

The vertical cut Vocalion discs I've found play with a steel needle and are very well recorded- at least equal in quality to their lateral cut discs issued immediately after. The labels have the 1916 copyright date to the right of the spindle hole instead of on the bottom of the title box.

My Okeh vertical cut labels have blue labels with gold printing, a black and white indian head is in the O, there's a red seal reading THE RECORD OF QUALITY at the top. Early lateral issues are the same but say LATERAL RECORD. Soon after the lettering was changed to just gold on a colored background. The record quality is medocre, comparable to their earlier lateral issues.

My vertical Gennet record has a blue label with gold lettering and a gold ring border. The name GENNETT is in old english lettering, and the text under the title says the record was "RECORDED IN OUR NEW YORK LABORATORIES" The record quality is mediocre.

Thanks, I did not realize there were so many labels that experimented with the hill and dale approach.
My interest was stirred when I discovered that Lyrics were intended to be played with steel needles compared to sapphire/diamond. Apparently they weren't the only ones. This will take some digging. John

Here is a pic of my 3 Operaphone vertical cut records. As you can see they are not in great shape, but the scratches are mostly superficial so they play acceptably. These are 8 inch discs and can be played with any vertical adapter that takes steel needles.

Be careful with Operaphone discs- they have finer than usual grooves & a scratch will easily cause a repeat.

Later 10 inch Operaphone discs are lateral cut.

Thanks for this. This encourages me not to give up on finding those late 1910s steel needle verticals (non-Pathé, non-Edison).

If you are very lucky, you may one day come across a Neophone.

This short lived UK vertical cut record was produced from 1904 to 1908, using an early form of plastic laminated onto a cardboard core.

Neophone also produced a range of machines, and a tonearm adapter which enabled conventional machines to play vertical cut records.

Poor tonal quality and noisy surfaces contributed to the company's demise.

More information and a selection of Neophone labels may be viewed on normanfield.com, an excellent website which I can strongly recommend.