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Anyone know why this went for so cheap?


http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/136 ... phonograph

I can only guess that the motor was not original. The high bidder was an internet bidder so maybe this bidder didn't see everything.....

I'm not so sure about the cabinet, either. I can't recall ever seeing dovetailing that large. And there are no wood rails, or even nail holes, for the (often-missing) swarf drawer. Plus the oddball carriage. For sure the topworks look right, including holes on the front where a plate would have been mounted restricting use to certain territories.

Rene,

I have seen that style carriage before but I cannot remember where or if it was even on a Class M. I think it might have something to do with accurate positioning the carriage for dictation by turning the rod in front. I will try and find it.....

The dovetail looks like it's ½ inch!

Steve

The mandrel looks like it may be rubber-coated. From an Edison H coin-op, perhaps? Lots of funky details.

Those aren't dovetails, they're finger-joints.

Andersun wrote:Rene,

I have seen that style carriage before but I cannot remember where or if it was even on a Class M. I think it might have something to do with accurate positioning the carriage for dictation by turning the rod in front. I will try and find it.....

Steve

Well I found what I was thinking.... The front carriage adjustment looks Bettinish! The last picture is the actual machine...

Steve

Same concept but clearly a different carriage entirely. It's an odd one -- the angle is strange. It's not a conventional angled side-mount, nor is it a coin-op style top mount. There's just a very slight angle to it. However it appears to have a large, single set screw for the reproducer, mounted on the left. That type of set screw is characteristic of the Edison H and the Manhattan, but the ones I've seen are on the right, not the left.

I still have to wonder if the carriage and mandrel aren't from some type of coin-op. The bar-controlled lift lever may have been added (Edison coin-ops do not have lift levers, a separate assembly raises and lowers the carriage).

I'll defer to JohnM on the terminology of the case construction, but the fact remains that I've never seen a Class M with a cabinet like that so I think it's reproduction.

I believe it may have been repainted as well, notice on the casting just below the feed screw there are 4 tiny holes, anyone else think that there was a identification plaque there which was removed to paint it?
This machine does seem slightly fishy, the cabinet may be a repro, or just a unique original, hard to tell from a photo, this may have been a restoration project from someone who just salvaged a carriage from a coin op machine, replaced the cabinet and re-painted the bed plate?

kirtley2012 wrote:I believe it may have been repainted as well, notice on the casting just below the feed screw there are 4 tiny holes, anyone else think that there was a identification plaque there which was removed to paint it?

The upper bed-plate finish looks pretty original to me. That is how they look when they are dirty. Many times the plates are missing. This upper bed plate looks like it had an Edison Phonograph Works tag on it at one time (see pic below). Usually they removed the plates when they refitted the Class M upper bed-plates to the early Spring Motor phonographs.

Take a look at the pic of the first early Edison/Bettini that Steve posted. That is an original case. Then look at the wood in the pic of the auctioned machine, the finger joint size and last the drawer pull. All early Edisons that I have seen have the knob turned by lathe into a recessed round area, so the knob doesn't protrude. The auctioned machine has a regular knob attached to the drawer and the drawer doesn't appear to be the correct size. Not that I am an expert, but the cabinet wood appears to be plain and more like a modern cabinet type "cut". Back in the day, no one cared so much about the waste that quarter sawing oak caused. Now, it is cut to get the most board feet out of a tree and you rarely see the wild striping and flaking in the grain.