The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I am friends with a local collector of 60 years who recently asked me if I would help him to downsize his hoard of machines/parts. He doesn't use computers so asked if I would start selling half a dozen items or so for him on a weekly basis via my eBay. I went today to pick up this weeks items and after doing so, have decided to post a thread about a couple of them because they are pretty interesting.

Here is a cylinder he gave me that he believed to be an Edison master. He hadn't ever played it and furthermore, didn't know what was originally recorded on it. (The cylinder on the right is a typical Edison brown wax for size comparison.)
I took it home and after looking at it closer, realized that what originally appeared to be mold, was in fact just a very worn surface. So I carefully put it on a machine and gave it a try just in case I could verify what this might be. I was surprised to hear that not only did it play quite audibly, but also that it was not an Edison master. The announcement stated the title of which I didn't hear the entire thing, followed by, "sung by Ada Jones, White Records."

I have done a bit of research on White Records tonight and found some general information. Please correct me if any of this isn't accurate. J.H. White worked as a manager for Edison and left the company to join the General Phonograph Corp. There he began production of White's Records using some of the "secrets" he learned about the cylinder recording processes while working for Edison. Apparently Edison took legal action against White and from what I have read, this contributed to the decision made on April 13, 1908 to shut down/liquidate the General Phonograph Corporation. Their contribution to the cylinder industry was brief.

I am still looking for more information on the General Phonograph Corp. and White's Records. So far, I haven't been able to come up with much detail regarding the company, cylinder production or the artists who recorded for them. I'd love to know more if anyone has more information about the company's history. I also don't know much about master cylinders in general as this is the first one that I have seen. I can't imagine a lot of masters surviving over the years but again, don't know much about them. Has anyone seen a master like this one?

Did these track ok, I wonder if they are 97 tpi. The land on the end was so they could be turned down on a lathe without cutting into the title end after they were plated to make the mold. White Record, that is pretty awesome!!! Contact me off list please.

Yes, it tracked just fine. I was a bit concerned that it might have a different tpi count than the typical brown wax cylinder due to it's overall length.

I found an advertisement for White Records and it claimed that their records played 15 seconds longer than any others available. Interesting claim.

I was able to record the master today and realized I was wrong about the artist. I can't make out the name of the artist in the announcement and don't know the title either. Hopefully someone here will be able to help decipher what is being said in the announcement or at least recognize the song. Here is the recording:

[youtubehd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzKBV0jjmEY[/youtubehd]

Here is another question. If you listen very closely to the announcement with the volume fairly high, it sounds like the title and artist are announced by one person and then "White Records" is announced by another. I could be hearing things, but the voices sound pretty different to me. Does anyone else hear the difference?

It's Peter Dawson, but not sure of the song title.
I must admit you had me wondering why Ada Jones would be on a British White Record lol.

*When the something leaves the something city.

gramophoneshane wrote:It's Peter Dawson, but not sure of the song title.
I must admit you had me wondering why Ada Jones would be on a British White Record lol.

*When the something leaves the something city.

I definitely jumped the gun without thinking when I mentioned Ada Jones. Thanks for the help with the artist. Maybe it will help lead the way to the title or possibly the recording date.

I got about the same thing you did from the announced title. Maybe I will have better luck doing a search using some of the actual lyrics in the song.

What do you think about the multiple announcers? Do their voices sound different or am I imagining things?

This is White Record No. 198 "Where the Road North Leaves the Minster City" sung, as we've discovered, by Peter Dawson and issued in May 1907.

According to the CLPGS Reference Series No.6 "The Ultimate Cylinder Handbook" by Keith Harrison:

"White Records first appeared in August 1906, produced by the General Phonograph Company of Euston Road, London. The company was formed by James White who had been a pioneer in the Edison film operation in the United States and became the highly sucessful European Managing Director of Edison's National Phonograph Co. in 1906. White fell out with the West Orange management and left the Edison organisation......and formed the General Phonograph Company. The company did not last long with the last cylinder list being published in October 1907...."

Hope this helps

Tim W-W

Wagnerian wrote:This is White Record No. 198 "Where the Road North Leaves the Minster City" sung, as we've discovered, by Peter Dawson and issued in May 1907.

Hope this helps

Tim W-W

Thanks for the information, Tim. Much appreciated.

SonnyPhono
It would be nice if we could have a link to your Ebay selling account so we
can have a look and maybe buy some of your friends 60 years of collecting...

What I would love to see is a wax master that has been coated
with gold leaf prior to plating and maybe investment casting.
Has anyone ever seen such an article?