Refinishing VV-VI

[jsonova99]

This is my first post, I have a few old phonographs (VV-VI, VV-X-A, and an Edison C-150). I'm also into old radios. We are restoring an old Victorian on the Eastern Shore of Virginia and phonographs and old radios are my input to the furnishings, what else would you expect from an engineer. Anyway, I just picked up the VV-VI really cheap at an antique shop. It looked terrible, but was complete with no damage and did play, more or less. It had a really dark finish on it that was terribly applied plus it was filthy. Somebody refinished it at some point, terribly! At first I thought it was mahogany one due to the really dark finish it had on it, but after deciding to strip it, I was pleasantly surprised to find tiger strip oak that was in really good shape. Anyway, I've stripped and applied stain (first project like this), and it really looks good, to me at least. Anyway, I had planned on coating the stained finish with sanding sealer and then finishing it with a shellac. The sanding sealer I was planning on using was Zinsser Bullseye Universal Sanding Sealer. I was going to use Zinsser Clear Shellac as a finish.

I wanted to run this plan by more experienced restorers to make sure that I am on the right track. Right now, after staining, it has a nice uniform color and I think it looks great, so I really don't want to screw it up now. For the record, this is going to be our personal machine displayed in the house and used pretty regularly, not trying to resell this. My goal is to have it as close to an original one as reasonably possible for a novice at refinishing. Thanks in advance for any thoughts on my project.

Joe

[Brad]

I would avoid the sanding sealer, though I believe the Zinzer sanding sealer is just a light cut of clear shellac.

Most machines were finished with orange shellac and would recommend that over the clear. It will give a richer depth to the finish. The good news is that Zinser sells orange shellac under the color "Amber" (Probably because most people would want an "amber" finish rather than an "orange" one, even though the finish orange gives is the one they want)

[FloridaClay]

Wouldn't these originally have had a "piano finish," requiring a grain filler to look right?

Clay

[jsonova99]

Thanks for the tips. Regarding the grain filler, I'm still learning, but I thought that didn't apply to oak finishes.

[VintageTechnologies]

I know from personal experience that oak Victrolas were finished with a grain filler. When I stripped one, something gritty like fine sand came out of the wood pores. The original surface when new must have been as smooth and glossy as a grand piano. Most refinishers don't bother with grain filler, but that's what you would have to use for an authentic restoration.

[FloridaClay]

While I know it is a different wood, when I had my mahogany Edison C150 refinished (required because the original was beyond hope) I had my restorer use grain filler and several coats of shellac. The results are just spectacular, with amazing depth. Visitors always comment on how gorgeous the wood is.

Clay

[martinola]

Filled grain is the way to go. It's a step many refinishers leave out because of the extra work in sanding as well as balancing out the color. Although black filler will work, I'd probably go with a very dark brown filler for oak. The other guys are correct about shellac. I sometimes will build-up color in the early coats with amber shellac, then switch to clear for the final 4 or 5 protective coats. Good luck on your project!

- Martin

[jsonova99]

Thanks for the feedback so far, I have two more questions:

1) I'm 4 coats of shellac in, and it's really coming out nice and even, but the shellac finish is REALLY glossy! I'm not sur if I like it that glossy or not. I think I actually preferred it right after I stained it with a much duller aged looking finish. Anyway, maybe I'm wrong, but I was curious if they were this glossy new and if there are any good ways to dull it some.

2) whoever did the last refinish basically just coated everything, including all of the hardware. I was going to clean the Victor placard, but I was hesitant to se stripper because I didn't want to take the original black paint off at all. Any thoughts? Looks like it might have been varnish that was used, but I'm not sure.

Thanks again
Joe

[alang]

Shellac is definitely the correct way to go. You can use 0000 steel wool in between coats to dull the finish a little bit, but you'll have to make sure the shellac is completely hardened before you do that. This means the whole process will take a lot longer to allow possibly several days for drying.

On the Victor plate I would start trying to use alcohol, mineral spirits, or other less intrusive methods, before using paint or lagquer thinner or stripper. If there is no other choice left than using these and the black paint comes off, you can restore the original look as follows:

1. cover the whole plate surface in black
2. gently remove the black from the raised letters etc by sliding it upside down on fine sand paper

Good luck
Andreas

[phonogfp]

+1 on what Andreas wrote. You can also use 0000 steel wool as the final step. Use an entire pad, and use only enough pressure to keep the pad stationary on a vertical surface (very light!). Now use that very light pressure to glide the pad over the surface, with the grain. You'll be surprised at the difference made after just 4 or 5 passes. It's subtle, but all that "just done" shininess disappears. On moldings or trim that has depth to it, you'll need to use enough pressure to make the steel wool conform to the shape, so only do 1 or 2 passes and see how it looks before doing more.

George P.