The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello Everyone,
Here are two videos to compare for sound quality.
I recorded the same song twice using the same Expert Senior gramophone. The first video is recorded using a HMV 5a soundbox, (I have several of these and this one is the best sounding). I used plumbers tape to get an airtight seal between the Expert tonearm and the HMV 5a soundbox. A snug fit.
http://youtu.be/gFRVd-SYFjs
The second video is with an Expert 4-spring soundbox.
I used the same bamboo needle for both, sharpened at each play.
http://youtu.be/W2cGuTt8mdg
I believe the Expert clearly outdoes the HMV in all respects.

I used a ZOOM Q3HD video recorder with two, built in condenser mics, set at low quality video but audio recorded at PCM-96kHz-24 bit

I will be doing more comparison videos using various reproducers. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I used an average quality, well known Ray Noble 78 for this experiment but would like to use something more dynamic for future comparisons; again any recommendations on that front are welcome.

(Double-click the video above or click this link to go to the video on YouTube.)

(Double-click the video above or click this link to go to the video on YouTube.)

I haven't heard it myself, but I was told by the fellow I bought my 202 from that the 5a sounds better on a 202 than an EMG/Expert soundbox. I'm not sure if this is so, but it seems to me that if a Victor No.5 (ortho box) improves a 202, then surely an Expert would as well?
Or perhaps the Expert & EMGs weren't a good match for the big folded horn in the large re-entrants?

I think the EMG soundbox out perfroms them all, honestly, and to my ears by a long shot. I did the same thing Chunny did with my EMG and it was pertty amazing. My EMG is only a 2 spring sounbox and even trying it on something like a Victor III and a couple internal horn models, it's just astounding to hear the difference. Eventually, I'd really like to figure out just what adjustments seem to make the most difference with the EMG soundbox, I've rebuilt mine and I'm rather pleased with the sound, but I'd be interested in knowing which adjustments are the most crucial ones. It seems to me the two screws that hold the small points against the needle bar / pivot are the most sensitive. Anyone?

This is not to say the HMV / Victor orthophonic soundboxes don't sound good, they do, but I think (if I read Shane's comments correctly) they sound best on re-entrant / ortho machines.

Sean

chunnybh wrote:I will be doing more comparison videos using various reproducers. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I used an average quality, well known Ray Noble 78 for this experiment but would like to use something more dynamic for future comparisons; again any recommendations on that front are welcome.

You might want to try the same test using steel (medium tone) needles in place of fiber, just to see if the HMV 5a has a better response. I remember the one I had was quite anemic sounding when I used fiber needles, compared to a medium tone steel needle.

DS

Judging from your videos, Shane, I prefer the HMV. The Expert has noticeably less treble, particularly a lack of vocal sibilance. This indicates that treble response above about 2kHz is lacking in the Expert. Balancing vocal sibilance while not sacrificing bass response is one of the most difficult things to get right in an acoustic reproducer. The orthophonic designs are probably the best at getting this compromise right.

The Expert will out - perform any machine in a room with Fibre Needles HOWEVER because of the U - Tube technology you need to use at least a Half - Tine steel needle to obtain the necessary volume and Clarity

I alwsys use steel for my recordings but never when listening unrecorded !

here's a good exemple - "My Cross eyed Beau" sung by the Girls of the golden West :

(Double-click the video above or click this link to go to the video on YouTube.)

or here where demonstrate "The Merry Peasant" Sung by Malcolm Mc Eachern with both Fibre & Steel

(Double-click the video above or click this link to go to the video on YouTube.)

I think it's important to also keep in mind that the Orthophonic sound box--if we buy into the "theory of matched impedance"--was designed specifically to be used with the Orthophonic tone chamber in order to function as a mechanical version of an electrical system.

The sound box's output, in other words--the volume of air compressed by movement of the diaphragm, it's velocity of movement, etc.--was maximized to the design characteristics of the (standard six foot) horn, which included the tonearm. This took into account the size of the the small end of the horn, the area of the horn's mouth, and the horn's rate of (exponential) taper. Changing the characteristics of the horn, or the sound box, would impact the system's overall performance.

I would guess that the EMG/Ginn gramophone's horns were optimized to the performance characteristics of their sound boxes in a similar fashion; though whether the design was arrived at through mathematical computation, as was the case with the Orthophonic Victrola, or through trial and error, I don't know.

DS

Hello Everyone,
Here are 4 more videos.
1. HMV 5A with bamboo needle.
2. HMV with soft steel needle.
3. EXPERT 4-spring with bamboo
4. EXPERT 4-spring with soft steel

I have misplaced my scratchy copy of "Che Faro" so have used “My Bonny Lad” as it is very short and to the point.

Decca F9300 Kathleen Ferrier- Ma Bonny Lad.
This side has two tracks the other is The Keel Row. The other side has the famous Blow the Wind Southerly. Recorded Dec-1949

To get the best sound on Youtube you need to watch the videos in HD set at 720p or higher. It’s the first button on the bottom right side of the player which says “change quality”. To download the videos in HD you need to use one of the many HD Youtube downloaders.
The videos are NOT compressed so they should give a reasonable reproduction of the original. I used a ZOOM Q3HD video recorder with two built in condenser mics. The audio recorded at PCM-96kHz-24 bi

(Double-click the video above or click this link to watch the video on YouTube in HD.)

(Double-click the video above or click this link to watch the video on YouTube in HD.)

(Double-click the video above or click this link to watch the video on YouTube in HD.)

(Double-click the video above or click this link to watch the video on YouTube in HD.)

Beautiful sound. If it's permitted, how do you download these videos? Is it also possible to download just the music? i.e. so I can copy it to a CD or MP3 player? Pardon my technical ignorance...

Actually, I found a program awhile back on the www called listentoyoutube.com that will allow you to download the audio from any youtube video. You just copy the link into the box on the website and it converts and provides you with a link to download the converted MP3 file.

Strange that nobody is willing to help with my original "tuning" question for a 2 spring EMG soundbox.

Sean