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I have seen a number of Victor Pre-dog R phonographs with the tag "remove this tag to attach tapered arm" Has anyone ever seen a Victor R with the tapered arm option? I have only seen them with the Rigid arm back bracket version? Would it be the same style bracket and tone arm as on the rear mount E or I?

The first version of the Victor I was the R cabinet/motor with a rigid arm back mount. As for tapered-arm versions, I don't recall seeing any, but original purchasers of front-mount Rs clearly had that option available to them. There must be a few out there.

I just checked the fit of the bracket/arm from a 2nd version Victor I (with the 8" beveled turntable) and it fits an R perfectly.

George P.

Was the machine in a Vic R cabinet with the rigid arm labeled as a Vic 1 or just advertised as a Victor the First? (and actually had the Vic R tag) Thanks, Jerry

Jerry B. wrote:Was the machine in a Vic R cabinet with the rigid arm labeled as a Vic 1 or just advertised as a Victor the First? (and actually had the Vic R tag) Thanks, Jerry

They were not labeled as "Vic 1" as far as I've seen, but they were advertised as a Victor the First while carrying the R data plate.

George P.

lt's my impression that the Victor advertising department really confused the model distinction for modern collectors. The Vic R was advertised as the "Victor the First" and then the R was replaced by the Vic 1.
Vic R... "Victor the First"... Vic 1
Vic E... "Victor the Second"... Vic II
Vic M... "Victor the Third"... Vic III
Vic MS... "Victor the Fourth"... Vic IV
Vic D... "Victor the Fifth"... Vic VI
Modern literature has perpetuated the confusion by lumping together what really are two distinct and unique models. That is not intended as a criticism because I suspect misinformation started with the Victor company and their record keeping. The recent thread about the high spindle Vic II is a good example of the confusion. Some contributors mentioned information about early Vic II's with 8" turntables. It's my opinion that a Vic II never had an 8" turntable or a two spring motor. Jerry Blais

Jerry B. wrote:lt's my impression that the Victor advertising department really confused the model distinction for modern collectors. The Vic R was advertised as the "Victor the First" and then the R was replaced by the Vic 1.
Vic R... "Victor the First"... Vic 1
Vic E... "Victor the Second"... Vic II
Vic M... "Victor the Third"... Vic III
Vic MS... "Victor the Fourth"... Vic IV
Vic D... "Victor the Fifth"... Vic VI
Modern literature has perpetuated the confusion by lumping together what really are two distinct and unique models. That is not intended as a criticism because I suspect misinformation started with the Victor company and their record keeping. The recent thread about the high spindle Vic II is a good example of the confusion. Some contributors mentioned information about early Vic II's with 8" turntables. It's my opinion that a Vic II never had an 8" turntable or a two spring motor. Jerry Blais

Jerry, I'm not clear on what you mean. Are you saying there's a difference between, for instance, a Victor III and a "Victor the Third?"

George P.

My Rigid arm R is labeled R. I have a pre-dog label front mount R that has the "Remove this tag to attach Rigid arm" plate on it. I have always heard that the only version of a back mount R was with the Rigid arm. But I have seen the other tag, "Remove this tag to attach tapered arm" on the pre-dog R models also. I just have never seen an R with a tapered arm. Sounds like my next quest!!!!!
I just found a nice Pre-dog E with the extended horn option. This makes the 6th version of the E in the collection. It is amazing how many different versions of each Victor was available throughout their production span.

George P., Thanks for checking the fit of a Victor I on an R. I bet it looks kind of neat.

Sorry I wasn't clear. It's confusing because a Vic M is not a Vic III but they were both advertised as a "Victor the Third". Jerry

Jerry B. wrote:Sorry I wasn't clear. It's confusing because a Vic M is not a Vic III but they were both advertised as a "Victor the Third". Jerry

Ah. Agreed. Despite the changes to motors, horns, and cabinets, the company advertised each model as "Victor the ______." I seem to recall Victrolas being advertised somewhere as "Victrola Sixteenth." It all sounds kinda pretentious, doesn't it? Victor should have stuck with Arabic number designations (1,2,3, etc.), to which they reverted again in 1921. Too bad nobody asked me at the time...

George P.

If anyone has a Victor R with a tapered arm setup, please post some pictures. I would like to also see the ID plate, serial number. Thanks, Ken Brekke