Needles for Old and New 78s

[vv50]

I play 78 records on my VV-50 Victrola from the 1912-1928 time period using steel needles. Should records (hard plastic/vinyl) from the 1939-1941 be played on the Victrola and using the steel needles? I know many of the records were produced for playing on electric turntables, but not sure if they were designed for both old Victrolas or just electric units. Thanks.

[Henry]

I play 78 records on my VV-50 Victrola from the 1912-1928 time period using steel needles. Should records (hard plastic/vinyl) from the 1939-1941 be played on the Victrola and using the steel needles? I know many of the records were produced for playing on electric turntables, but not sure if they were designed for both old Victrolas or just electric units. Thanks.

Do not play any "hard plastic/vinyl" records on a Victrola like the VV-50 or similar! The weight of the sound box and the steel needle will ruin them. Such records should only be played on a machine with electrical pickup cartridge equipped with a stylus of the proper tip diameter. Reserve your VV-50 for playing "shellac" 78s only!

[Torjazzer]

The general cut-off year is 1925. This is the year when the major manufacturers started pressing electrically recorded discs. Your vv-50 should have a No. 2 reproducer which was not made to handle electric records. It will destroy them. The vv-50 is a fine machine but keep your playing to the acoustic period.

[Henry]

The general cut-off year is 1925. This is the year when the major manufacturers started pressing electrically recorded discs. Your vv-50 should have a No. 2 reproducer which was not made to handle electric records. It will destroy them. The vv-50 is a fine machine but keep your playing to the acoustic period.

This is not what OP is asking. His question concerned the materials comprising the physical record, not how or when it was recorded. See my post.

As for playing electrically or acoustically recorded 78s, there is some debate. My practice has been, and is, to play shellac 78s on my VV-XI without regard to recording method or date. Repeated playing of the same records, both pre- and post-1925, has resulted in no audible damage that I can detect. But as I stated above, I do not play hard plastic or vinyl materials no matter when recorded.

[Torjazzer]

The general cut-off year is 1925. This is the year when the major manufacturers started pressing electrically recorded discs. Your vv-50 should have a No. 2 reproducer which was not made to handle electric records. It will destroy them. The vv-50 is a fine machine but keep your playing to the acoustic period.

This is not what OP is asking. His question concerned the materials comprising the physical record, not how or when it was recorded. See my post.

As for playing electrically or acoustically recorded 78s, there is some debate. My practice has been, and is, to play shellac 78s on my VV-XI without regard to recording method or date. Repeated playing of the same records, both pre- and post-1925, has resulted in no audible damage that I can detect. But as I stated above, I do not play hard plastic or vinyl materials no matter when recorded.

My response is quite valid. The poster mentioned playing records pressed up to 1928. I cautioned that 1925 should be the cut-off date, considering that records should be played on era-appropriate machines. There was a question about playing records of the years 1939-1941: a query more than adequately answered by stating the relevance of 1925.

[Wolfe]

If there's a cutoff year it should be more like 1935.

This question comes up so often, it should have a forum sub section of it's own.

[dd2u]

Repeated playing of the same records, both pre- and post-1925, has resulted in no audible damage that I can detect.

How are you trying to detect it? If you cannot hear the damage it may be because the equipment was never capable of reproducing the details you have destroyed in the first place.

You can hear it very well on this YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Paal1994

My guess would be this disc has barely been played at all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxT_d6sFFp4

This one has been played a little:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PPsqJq-svA

This one a little more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYuU0lwnYWo

He does not seem to have any really "steeled" recordings, though the vast majority of records from this era are found very worn condition.

I bet that all three of those records would sound equally perfect on almost any gramophone, yet the damage has clearly been done to those latter two.


It seems to matter slightly less with acoustic discs. Even then I have a few discs from the 1900s and 1910s with amazingly quiet backgrounds. I can only assume that they have rarely if even seen a steel needle.

[EdisonSquirrel]

While repeated playing of a shellac disc with a steel needle will inevitably result in some sound deterioration, most of the wear that we hear on old records is due to the original owners not changing the needle with every play.



Rocky

[vv50]

Thanks for all of the responses and comments. Below are the numbers off of some of the records that I know were played on the Victrola in the 1920s. That's because the unit has been in my family since it was purchased.

Columbia numbers: 79891 145441 145499 15275-D and Victor: 19427-B

The 79891 is a one sided recording from 1912. All of the others were in mid to late 1920s.

I would think all of these would be appropriate to play using the VV-50 and steel needles. Do you all agree and if so, should I only use the needle one time? Thanks again for your help.

[epigramophone]

While repeated playing of a shellac disc with a steel needle will inevitably result in some sound deterioration, most of the wear that we hear on old records is due to the original owners not changing the needle with every play.



Rocky

This is a very good point (no pun intended) which is so often overlooked by today's collectors.

Almost all the records in most collections have been previously owned, and almost all will previously have been played with steel needles. Fibre and thorn needles were a niche product used by a tiny minority of dedicated audiophiles. HMV did not even market them until 1912, although they had been around since 1907.

As for the idea of playing records on "era appropriate" machines, a properly maintained and adjusted pre-1925 soundbox should not damage electrical recordings, but it will not reproduce them to their full potential.