The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Seems the UK seller "Earlywireless" is selling another suspicious and rare machine. I just hope a collector is not fooled. There are way to many red flags with this. I do like the way the description is written....
"I cannot be sure but the horn appears to be made from either paper or papier mache, however, this is only my opinion so if I am wrong please let me know".
What do the UK collectors say of this seller??. I'm curious......

That's horrible!

It reminds me of the Shellac Collective's comedy papier mache horn, and Kipper the cat.

Yes. It's certainly an Enigma ........

Steve in his post last year may be on the money?

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=10897

Steve, is it the same seller?

Yes, it is the same seller! BEWARE IT IS AN ABSOLUTE FAKE and he knows it!!!!!!!! DON'T BE FOOLED.

He bought it from SAS Auctions last week. I was looking at it when the hammer went down. It is a load of old c**p. Don't say I never warned you. If this man is pretending he knows no better, he is the pits. An Enigma maybe? Psssst, know where I can get a cheap Enigma machine, mate?

Steve wrote:Yes, it is the same seller! BEWARE IT IS AN ABSOLUTE FAKE and he knows it!!!!!!!! DON'T BE FOOLED.

He bought it from SAS Auctions last week. I was looking at it when the hammer went down. It is a load of old c**p. Don't say I never warned you. If this man is pretending he knows no better, he is the pits. An Enigma maybe? Psssst, know where I can get a cheap Enigma machine, mate?

Well, your not just kidding. I asked (via Ebay) if there were any "reproduction" parts on this Gramophone and was it a real 1890's K&R made Grammophon.

Here is the response I received:


Hello,
I found this machine belonged to my late father who started collecting before the war and he amassed a huge collection of all kinds of mechanical objects including gramophones, phonographs, typewriters, sewing machines, music boxes, clocks, toys, cameras, scientific instruments and all kinds of strange objects. He died 3 years ago aged 98 and I have been disposing of them on behalf of his estate ever since. My field of interest is in early wireless therefore I am unable to answer your specific questions regarding reproduction parts and I certainly do not know what an original K&R Grammophon is or what it looks like, can you please enlighten me?
regards.

gramophone78 wrote:Here is the response I received:


Hello,
I found this machine belonged to my late father who started collecting before the war and he amassed a huge collection of all kinds of mechanical objects including gramophones, phonographs, typewriters, sewing machines, music boxes, clocks, toys, cameras, scientific instruments and all kinds of strange objects. He died 3 years ago aged 98 and I have been disposing of them on behalf of his estate ever since. My field of interest is in early wireless therefore I am unable to answer your specific questions regarding reproduction parts and I certainly do not know what an original K&R Grammophon is or what it looks like, can you please enlighten me?
regards.

If such a message is sent to the eventual buyer and they buy on this basis is it not fraud? Could not the seller end up in prison? While the seller is trying very carefully to avoid an outright lie I think the statement "this machine belonged to my late father" is material to this case as it indicates that the machine was not purchased as a reproduction from SAS last week!

There is dishonest, immoral, and illegal. This sale is clearly one or two of these but is it all three?

It is fraud; deliberate misinformation in an attempt to mislead buyers! Therefore it is all three.

The seller modified his sales tactics to be on the safe side: "Hello, There is no patent plate on the machine nor any script on the mica and I have no idea of either its age or whether it is an original or a replice which is why it is being sold as seen so just to be on the safe side I would reccomend that potental buyers bid on the item as if it were a replica."

All potential (inexperienced) buyers should read carefully before spending a lot of money: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAND-DRIVEN-P ... 20cfd5c05d

PS: If it were an original Kämmer, Reinhardt & Co. Grammophon it were incorrectly listed in the "UK machines" forum.

The K&R Grammophon replica made £1,786.00. Too little for an original, but still too much for an inaccurate replica. I wonder if the buyer thinks to have made a bargain.